Do people aspire to be corporate pilots?

[nottellin]

Some nice stories here on the ups of corporate aviation,

But from where I am at, corporate is on the decline, management companies are becoming more prolific and their agenda is to reduce costs for owners to pad their margins and we all know where those cuts come from. Starting pay for Captains has been steadily declining for the last few years and guys are usually only getting inflation if that for pay increases.

For new F/O's their starting pay is usually right in line with jazz/ skyregional etc, Sure chances of an upgrade will happen earlier but if your new Capt pay is only 80-85k ish and you are only getting 2% increases a year, your airline colleagues will quickly surpass you and it will be an even tougher move to go back and start at the bottom somewhere, if you get sick of it.

So for this chance a quicker upgrade the job security side of things is a joke compared to the airline world, you better pick your horses wisely and keep your ear to the ground as you dont want to be the last guy notified when your airplane is sold, which is usually how it goes.

Say you were mis fortunate enough to twist some metal in the corporate world, well there is no union like at the airlines to protect your ass and I am assuming you would be one thrown under the bus if there was even a hint of Pilot error, which there usually is.

Get into corporate if you intend on doing something on the side to subsidize your income due to the fact in most case you get more time off, however you will most likely have no control of what days those will be and things can change last minute, so the side job better be flexible.

Also if you get off on telling people you fly a big airliner, dont do corpotate because the first thing people ask when they hear your a pilot is " how big is the plane" and you say, " well its a jet, seats 6 to 10 ppl, in big seat though ...."

I do enjoy the challenge of corporate as I like the interaction, your dealing with big shots and know it alls, so dont try to BS them, and there is no cockpit door to hide behind. So you have to know what you are talking about.

Im still waiting for one of those sweet jobs some of the other guys have been mentioning, in the meantime, things are not that bad, but they need to get a whole lot better or Ill have to face the fact that I made the wrong choice when going corporate years back.

[wallypilot]

There are always those that feel they made the wrong choice, airline or corporate. Chance and opportunity always play a roll in career progression. I have met many airline guys that wish for corporate and vice versa. Grass is always greener and all that.

But the original question was do people aspire to be corporate pilots. To be honest, I don't know if it's possible, since most newbies have no clue about corporate aviation, so how can one aspire to something one knows nothing about? In any case once in aviation, and once you learn a bit about the industry, do pilots aspire to be corporate pilots? Well, I did. I considered the airlines along the way, but the airlines for me was always a settlement, never what I really wanted, so I am very happy that I found the elusive "sweet corporate gig" because otherwise I would been sloggin it out month to month in teal! Man those guys work too hard!

[tons-o-fun]

To the original question do pilots aspire to become corporate pilots? Yes they do. I, from a very young age grew up in a small town with large industry. I cut grass,swept hangar floors, and watched big corporate jets fly in with the big wigs. After the big wigs left to head to their meetings I watched the pilots strip down to their casuals and have a couple cocktails with a sexy stewardess (they're not dragons like the airlines) for the little known APU party. I thought man, these guys have it all figured out.

When I finally got my ducks in a row to start a career path towards becoming a corporate pilot I actually reached out to a very well known member of the Avcanada community (Sulako) for advice on career path. Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot. Or maybe he was too busy making one of those cool, hip job ads. Either way, I ended up doing it by myself and surpassing Sulako in every way (thanks for the indirect motivation ya dink. I'm a cocky big wheel now haha)

Corp Aviation needs to get their shit together and stop eating their young. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to wage, sched, working conditions. Don't let sub par companies like Chartright dictate wages and working conditions that are declining. Stand up, be professionals and make corporate a career and not a pass through job to the airlines.

Corporate is challenging some days. It takes a special kind of person to become a GOOD corporate pilot. You have to be a self starter, think on your feet, Work hard, and avoid being an introvert. You will have to deal with some of the most powerful people in North America and not being able to hold an intelligent conversation will be very detrimental to your progression.

I'm proud of where I'm at. Things are good. I look at airlines as giving up and taking the easy road where you no longer have to think for yourself or worry about being fired, a union will always protect you. Weak. I really wish I had those cool hats, rolley bags, and swagger when walking through the terminal though lol. Do something cool with your life, you will have the opportunity to see and sometimes experience how the 1% live. Screw that, become the 1% lol but if all else fails become a Corp pilot, it's the next best thing!

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Lots of good conversation...rare for the "corporate" forum...just what I was looking for when I posted the "insulting" question!
My dream was to fly for Big Red...when the call came for an interview, I promptly turned them down. I was already too far into a corporate career to take such a step backwards in pay and working conditions.
I have been flying corporate jets for fifteen years and absolutely love it. There is no way I could get this lifestyle at the airlines, plus a salary that is greater than the average Canadian airline pilot.
I found corporate aviation "accidentally" early in my career and I am very happy that I did.
It was the best kept secret in the aviation world...when I started flying I had no aviation background and had no clue such a career exsisted.

[DowneastGuy]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot.

Hmm, so based on this statement, now that you have become a corporate pilot you're no better than the person you're criticizing.

[tons-o-fun]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot.

Hmm, so based on this statement, now that you have become a corporate pilot you're no better than the person you're criticizing.

**Sarcasm** Hard to translate into words...

[Flybabe]

...
Corp Aviation needs to get their shit together and stop eating their young. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to wage, sched, working conditions. Don't let sub par companies like Chartright dictate wages and working conditions that are declining. Stand up, be professionals and make corporate a career and not a pass through job to the airlines. ...

For some reason, this struck me. It's not companies like Chartright, it's also companies that are promoting themselves as "the best" while they are, behind the scenes, forcing the flight crews to curbs costs because "the owners", that's why.

I guess that's typical in aviation in general, though.

[C208]

I turned down Cathay, AC, Jazz, and Porter to stick it out with Corporate. I just couldn't see myself leaving this company to be at the bottom rung of a long ladder. The interview process were fun and I liked the challenge but in the end I turned them down. I would have to work for 10-15 years at each company to match what my first year pay was at my Company, (And thats for the RIGHT seat) . I work with great people and I am home every night, were encouraged to take courses necessary to further our education in Aviation and outside of it as well, often at their expense.

I do look at the 777s taxi by and wonder if that could be me one day!

I very curious as to what company pays $150,000+ to start in the right seat....

Oil

[V2plus10]

Corp Aviation needs to get their shit together and stop eating their young. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to wage, sched, working conditions. Don't let sub par companies like Chartright dictate wages and working conditions that are declining. Stand up, be professionals and make corporate a career and not a pass through job to the airlines.

ton-o-fun, Can I ask what is your experience level in regards to Chartright? Do you have first hand knowledge in regards to their pay. I know they just revamped their pay scales and starting FO salary on a light jet(C560) is 50k, when Sunwest starts their C680 Sovereign FO's at 40k. Maybe I don't know what you know, but considering that alone I don't get how Chartright is the company dictating wages.

[Flybabe]

Speaking of Chartright ....

If there are any pilots on here that work there, please PM me.

[Jasper]

Chartright, like all management companies are only as good as their current management. Under Rependa, Chartright was born and became a respectable company, under Nigel Argent, it was a disaster, under current management, it is reasonably well run operationally and better run as a business.

Management companies all incur the same operational expenses so the only place to compete for business is in driving salaries down. They get away with it by retaining employees with training bonds. Why you want to hold someone in a job that really doesn't want to be there is beyond me. Why you want to work for a company that practices that is also beyond me. In all fairness, all management companies do the same. Gone are the days of paying to retain the individuals you want.

[West peak]

I spoke to a good buddy of mine about a job posting for Chartright a little while back. He sent me the pay structure below.
Not sure if this new pay scale that was mentioned above is legit but he said the pay hasn't changed for years. Annual pay raises are just CPI.
Company seems just like any other Management Company, looking to cut costs which starts at pilot pay. I'm sure he said they don't get any stat days either, but don't quote me on that.
He seemed happy there though.

[fish4life]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot.

Hmm, so based on this statement, now that you have become a corporate pilot you're no better than the person you're criticizing.

**Sarcasm** Hard to translate into words...

Ok so to get it straight he did help you then?

[tons-o-fun]

Of course my questions were ignored probably due to the fact he's like every other corp pilot, thinks he's bobby big wheel and doesn't have time for a young aspiring corp pilot

**Sarcasm** Hard to translate into words...

Ok so to get it straight he did help you then?

No

[x15]

Edited...

[Jasper]

I am sorry x15, but you are deluded if you even believe half of what you just posted. We all make choices for our own reasons and the smart choices are made for your own benefit not because you don't care for the strut or hairstyle of the other guys doing what suits them. That thought process echoes the pilot vs engineer attitudes of years past.

Nobody is better because of their choices or circumstances. They are better because they take pride in what they do without the belittlement of others.

I started my aviation career wanting to get into ATC. A private licence led to a flying career that has encompassed everything from floats to airline and corporate. I came through in the era of deregulation and mergers and acquisitions so airlines were anything but stable. I chose the corporate route because there was an employment opportunity that excluded having to go to the desert. That fit the needs of my young family and my wife's desires. It turned out that I found I was cut out to be a very good corporate pilot and had the attention to details an airline job did not require. I have also paid for it in having a series of micro-careers with a self funded pension as opposed to a nice AC pension. There are tradeoffs and everyone needs to determine what they are willing to give and wanting to take.

There is no right or wrong unless you are talking about your own needs and desires and not someone else.

[golden hawk]

Corporate pilots get better hotels. Airline pilots get bed bugs

[scopiton]

Nobody is better because of their choices or circumstances. They are better because they take pride in what they do without the belittlement of others.

those are well-rounded.

[up on one]

I have always aspired to be a corporate pilot but I have a long way to get there. I have started research on a few operators which will eventually help achieve my goal but for now I enjoy circling at mins and landing on gravel strips.

If any of you gurus have any advice of where to begin or tips in general I would greatly appreciate it.

[Jasper]

I have always aspired to be a corporate pilot but I have a long way to get there. I have started research on a few operators which will eventually help achieve my goal but for now I enjoy circling at mins and landing on gravel strips.

If any of you gurus have any advice of where to begin or tips in general I would greatly appreciate it.

Get as close as you can to relevant experience. ie: twin turbine in an IFR environment. More important, become well known amongst corporate operators. ie: network. Be aware of your image. Look professional when in the vicinity of other professionals. Learn to be discreet and never speak poorly of individuals or employers.