2017 NBAA numbers are out

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whatsitdoingnow
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2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by whatsitdoingnow »

So this is approx numbers for each weight catagory.

So look at your aircrafts MTOW and approximate where it falls in the catagory scale. For example, let's say you are flying a Challenger 300 and been on it for a couple of years, it would be at the upper end of the 20,000lb to 45,000lb scale so use the 75% Quartile as a good benchmark. These numbers are not for senior captains which average about 10-15% more.

10,000lb to 20,000lb MTOW.

Captain
Average $93,423
25% Quartile $80'000
75% Quartile $106,502

F/O
Average $70,940
25% Quartile $51,125
75% Quartile $84,000

20,000lb to 45,000lb MTOW

Captain
Average $120,953
25% $102,000
75% $136,500

F/O
Average $84,420
25% $67,863
75% $97,834


45,000lb to 80,000lb MTOW

Captain
Average $144,196
25% $123,553
75% $163,842

F/O
Average $95,123
25% $85,000
75% $107,957


80,000lbs to 120,000lbs

Captain
Average $180,719
25% $154,000
75% $200,000

F/O
Average $131,147
25% $110,000
75% $150,000
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Jet Jockey
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by Jet Jockey »

Top echelon (80K-120K pound aircrafts) sound about right to me.

In our operation all pilots (12 of them) are captain qualified and all are on the same scale whether they fly the 604 or GEX because basically both aircrafts do the same job.

The only thing different is with more years/seniority in the company the more you make and the more vacation time yo get up to 5 weeks a year.

We usually get cost of living plus 1% for those that have made it to the top end of the scale.
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Last edited by Jet Jockey on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

Please tell me those figures are USD
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Galaxy
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by Galaxy »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:Please tell me those figures are USD
Yes
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target
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by target »

Don't understand the 25% and 75% numbers?
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whatsitdoingnow
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by whatsitdoingnow »

Yes it is USD

The 25% and 75% figures are to show you the range of pay. The NBAA actually give the highest, lowest and every 10% in between. But from the numbers I gave you, it's easy enough to work out. If you are brand new to the company and plane and it's at the lower end of the catagory weight then expect closer to 25% or lower pay, and if you've been on type for a while and at the high end of the catagory then expect 75% or higher etc etc. It is just a guide amd there are many factors that are used.

Unfortunately the weight catagories have a fairly large spread which doesn't help, but it is only a guide so you don't go in completely blind.
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digits_
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by digits_ »

target wrote:Don't understand the 25% and 75% numbers?
25%: 25% of the pilots in that group make less than the 25% number
75%: 25% of the pilots in that group make more than the 75% number
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target
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by target »

So how do these pay rates relate to what Canadian corporate pilots should/ are making?
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

target wrote:So how do these pay rates relate to what Canadian corporate pilots should/ are making?
From what I've seen, the same except in CAD. We just don't have the size or demand for the private flying sector up here like the U.S does.

LinkedIn has 15 U.S corporate gigs per 1 Canadian gig.

S.
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CL-Skadoo!
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
target wrote:So how do these pay rates relate to what Canadian corporate pilots should/ are making?
From what I've seen, the same except in CAD. We just don't have the size or demand for the private flying sector up here like the U.S does.

LinkedIn has 15 U.S corporate gigs per 1 Canadian gig.

S.
I agree with this, speaking as a captain on the heavier birds. Same as US, but CAD. Let's not forget our cost of living though. Luckily a great schedule balances that out nicely and I wouldn't take the slight raise to live in the states. I really can't complain about my lot.
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rippey
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by rippey »

I've never seen any studies done on the matter but my guess based on conversations with drivers on both sides of the border is that the US corporate guys typically fly more hours per year than we do. Those numbers seem pretty accurate for true corporate jobs, but my experience is management companies are hitting the 25% numbers or below for the most part - the exception being the handful of aircraft that fall under a management company but the pilots are employed directly by the corporation that owns the plane - they seem to do better.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

When AC and Westjet start hiring direct entry captains, these corporate operators are going to be in serious trouble
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by Jet Jockey »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:When AC and Westjet start hiring direct entry captains, these corporate operators are going to be in serious trouble
What?

Air Canada or WestJet wouldn't be able to pay me enough to jump ship. I basically work 6 months a year, fly roughly 250 hours a year, get 5 weeks vacation, fly one of the best aircrafts there is to fly, with trips all over the world and paid to wait at great destinations in great hotels with very good per diems to boot. We have a monthly schedule with 10 days a month off but in reality we are home on standby days where you can do basically what you want while being available within 2 hours of a call for a last minute flight (this happened less than ten times in 26 years)... And the salary I'm sure is one of the better ones in Canada.

Their direct entry captain positions wouldn't be on the higher salary aircrafts anyway. Airline flying is routine work, boring IMHO (been there done that).

The only advantage flying for Air Canada would offer if you started at 21 years of age and retired at 65 would be their pension plan.
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'97 Tercel
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by '97 Tercel »

Jeez, you guys hiring??
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Galaxy
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by Galaxy »

Jet Jockey wrote:
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:When AC and Westjet start hiring direct entry captains, these corporate operators are going to be in serious trouble
What?

Air Canada or WestJet wouldn't be able to pay me enough to jump ship. I basically work 6 months a year, fly roughly 250 hours a year, get 5 weeks vacation, fly one of the best aircrafts there is to fly, with trips all over the world and paid to wait at great destinations in great hotels with very good per diems to boot. We have a monthly schedule with 10 days a month off but in reality we are home on standby days where you can do basically what you want while being available within 2 hours of a call for a last minute flight (this happened less than ten times in 26 years)... And the salary I'm sure is one of the better ones in Canada.

Their direct entry captain positions wouldn't be on the higher salary aircrafts anyway. Airline flying is routine work, boring IMHO (been there done that).

The only advantage flying for Air Canada would offer if you started at 21 years of age and retired at 65 would be their pension plan.
Way to go....You just let the cat out of the bag.
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by Jet Jockey »

Galaxy wrote:
Jet Jockey wrote:
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:When AC and Westjet start hiring direct entry captains, these corporate operators are going to be in serious trouble
What?

Air Canada or WestJet wouldn't be able to pay me enough to jump ship. I basically work 6 months a year, fly roughly 250 hours a year, get 5 weeks vacation, fly one of the best aircrafts there is to fly, with trips all over the world and paid to wait at great destinations in great hotels with very good per diems to boot. We have a monthly schedule with 10 days a month off but in reality we are home on standby days where you can do basically what you want while being available within 2 hours of a call for a last minute flight (this happened less than ten times in 26 years)... And the salary I'm sure is one of the better ones in Canada.

Their direct entry captain positions wouldn't be on the higher salary aircrafts anyway. Airline flying is routine work, boring IMHO (been there done that).

The only advantage flying for Air Canada would offer if you started at 21 years of age and retired at 65 would be their pension plan.
Way to go....You just let the cat out of the bag.
Sorry... Should I retract my post?
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

I think you misread the sarcasm. Basically keep the peeps that think the airlines are the 'be all end all of aviation' out of the corporate club.

You don't want to actually use facts and specifics to convince them otherwise, or else they might come over and crap in the pool.

S.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by Yycjetdriver »

schnitzel2k3 wrote:I think you misread the sarcasm. Basically keep the peeps that think the airlines are the 'be all end all of aviation' out of the corporate club.

You don't want to actually use facts and specifics to convince them otherwise, or else they might come over and crap in the pool.

S.
Yeah be careful, don't let your big secret out of the bag. The thousands of airline pilots in this country are at the airlines because they don't know about the top secret world of corporate flying....... Too bad there's never been anyone whose gone from corporate to the airline world they can vet for info to shed some light on the amazing stability, pay and benefits.......
There's been many who have gone corporate to airlines and never looked back, while the opposite is very very rare and for good reason. I think your secret is safe.
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by '97 Tercel »

bitter
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Yycjetdriver wrote:
schnitzel2k3 wrote:I think you misread the sarcasm. Basically keep the peeps that think the airlines are the 'be all end all of aviation' out of the corporate club.

You don't want to actually use facts and specifics to convince them otherwise, or else they might come over and crap in the pool.

S.
Yeah be careful, don't let your big secret out of the bag. The thousands of airline pilots in this country are at the airlines because they don't know about the top secret world of corporate flying....... Too bad there's never been anyone whose gone from corporate to the airline world they can vet for info to shed some light on the amazing stability, pay and benefits.......
There's been many who have gone corporate to airlines and never looked back, while the opposite is very very rare and for good reason. I think your secret is safe.
Tongue in cheek plus paraphrasing, but thanks for that.

S.
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nottellin
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by nottellin »

The problem with those great corporate gigs is that they are so few and far between and when one comes up the entire north end of YYZ applies, plus management companies are constantly trying to insert themselves into those good jobs.
I miss those nice layovers myself but going airline route has more likely higher financial payoffs, then hoping to get lucky on a great corporate gig.

Now If we were in the US, total different ballgame, but In Canada it doesnt seem to have the demand.
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CAL
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by CAL »

+1
schnitzel2k3 wrote:I think you misread the sarcasm. Basically keep the peeps that think the airlines are the 'be all end all of aviation' out of the corporate club.

You don't want to actually use facts and specifics to convince them otherwise, or else they might come over and crap in the pool.

S.
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CAL
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by CAL »

+1 also
nottellin wrote:The problem with those great corporate gigs is that they are so few and far between and when one comes up the entire north end of YYZ applies, plus management companies are constantly trying to insert themselves into those good jobs.
I miss those nice layovers myself but going airline route has more likely higher financial payoffs, then hoping to get lucky on a great corporate gig.

Now If we were in the US, total different ballgame, but In Canada it doesnt seem to have the demand.
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tlr45
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Re: 2017 NBAA numbers are out

Post by tlr45 »

CAL wrote:+1 also
nottellin wrote:The problem with those great corporate gigs is that they are so few and far between and when one comes up the entire north end of YYZ applies, plus management companies are constantly trying to insert themselves into those good jobs.
I miss those nice layovers myself but going airline route has more likely higher financial payoffs, then hoping to get lucky on a great corporate gig.

Now If we were in the US, total different ballgame, but In Canada it doesnt seem to have the demand.
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