Returning From the US
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Returning From the US
Greetings,
My flight department hasn't left Canada since Covid thing started, but that is about to change. I understand that as pilots we are exempt from the quarantine rules, but has anyone here spent time in the US before returning? For example, flying the boss to LA, staying there for a week+ (possibly flying elsewhere within the US) before flying the boss home again. This as opposed to landing, fueling up and heading home without leaving the FBO. From my conversations with CBSA agents, it will depend on the discretion officer at the port of entry in Canada whether or not we are ok, or have to quarantine since we didn't adhere to the intent of the exemption. I get the feeling that the officer would rule against us. We've been brainstorming ways to avoid:
1-flying home on the airlines,forfeiting our exemption and having to quarantine when we get home
2-staying with the boss, ordering in food for days and days, in hopes of being granted the exemption when we get home, but getting quarantined by the officer on the spot anyway
Since we are a two-person flight department this would be a bit of a hassle either way. Perhaps that's what we have to accept these days if we're going to head down to the US! If anyone has dealt with this sort of thing and has any insight, it'd be greatly appreciated.
My flight department hasn't left Canada since Covid thing started, but that is about to change. I understand that as pilots we are exempt from the quarantine rules, but has anyone here spent time in the US before returning? For example, flying the boss to LA, staying there for a week+ (possibly flying elsewhere within the US) before flying the boss home again. This as opposed to landing, fueling up and heading home without leaving the FBO. From my conversations with CBSA agents, it will depend on the discretion officer at the port of entry in Canada whether or not we are ok, or have to quarantine since we didn't adhere to the intent of the exemption. I get the feeling that the officer would rule against us. We've been brainstorming ways to avoid:
1-flying home on the airlines,forfeiting our exemption and having to quarantine when we get home
2-staying with the boss, ordering in food for days and days, in hopes of being granted the exemption when we get home, but getting quarantined by the officer on the spot anyway
Since we are a two-person flight department this would be a bit of a hassle either way. Perhaps that's what we have to accept these days if we're going to head down to the US! If anyone has dealt with this sort of thing and has any insight, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Re: Returning From the US
No quarantine necessary as crew, even when deadheading back. That was the situation a month ago, I don't think it has changed.
I don't think any private plane meets the intent of the exemption, but it seems to be the way it is being applied.
I don't think any private plane meets the intent of the exemption, but it seems to be the way it is being applied.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Returning From the US
By deadheading, do you mean flying the aircraft home empty or airlining home? Flying home empty would definitely be the preferred option.
Re: Returning From the US
Both. As long as you are a pilot it seems people just Waltz through without quarantaine requirement.StandingBy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:12 pm By deadheading, do you mean flying the aircraft home empty or airlining home? Flying home empty would definitely be the preferred option.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Returning From the US
Interesting. We assumed that once you got on an airliner that you were just like everybody else.
Re: Returning From the US
While we can debate all day long whether or not a pilot of a business aircraft can be considered as being employed in the transportation sector and therefore exempt from the quarantine act, in practice any such discussion is way too complicated and if you have a professional pilot's licence and are employed as a pilot, you are not going to have a problem. I've gone back and forth several times on business without a problem. A couple months ago I brokered an aircraft sale and the new owner came from the US via the airlines, picked up their plane and flew home. At customs he showed them his licence, declared he was here to pick up an aircraft, and that was the end of the questions.
Don't overthink it. You're not a tourist, you're acting in the course of your employment as a pilot.
Don't overthink it. You're not a tourist, you're acting in the course of your employment as a pilot.
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Re: Returning From the US
Thank you for the replies. CBSA seems to agree; getting on an airliner to get home doesn't mess with the exemption. That makes life much easier! Now that we've started checking around it seems that people are travelling in an out of the US with less hassle than I expected.
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Re: Returning From the US
I commute to my flying job in the US ever other week, I am away from Canada for 8 days at a time.
I drive across the border in my car then go to work.
Never had a problem going there or coming back to Canada the last few months.
The usual questions from CBSA
How long away? anything to declare? Any guns?
Plus lately they have been asking what cities I have been to?
Did I do any sightseeing while there?
Where did I spend most of my time when not flying? Hotel?
Plus how am I feeling? Any symptom of flu or fever?
Since you are air crew you are exempt from the 14 day quarantine but must report to your local health authority if you have any symptoms.
I do a covid test once a month and our company paid for the antibody test last month.
Still negative.
One big shock is the attitude of people in the US vs Canada.
I see people sitting in the hotel bars next to each other acting as if everything is normal.
Company policy is take out, in room dining only or in the aircraft.
So far so good
Good news is business aviation is back to pre Covid-19 levels at our company and increasing demand.
I drive across the border in my car then go to work.
Never had a problem going there or coming back to Canada the last few months.
The usual questions from CBSA
How long away? anything to declare? Any guns?
Plus lately they have been asking what cities I have been to?
Did I do any sightseeing while there?
Where did I spend most of my time when not flying? Hotel?
Plus how am I feeling? Any symptom of flu or fever?
Since you are air crew you are exempt from the 14 day quarantine but must report to your local health authority if you have any symptoms.
I do a covid test once a month and our company paid for the antibody test last month.
Still negative.
One big shock is the attitude of people in the US vs Canada.
I see people sitting in the hotel bars next to each other acting as if everything is normal.
Company policy is take out, in room dining only or in the aircraft.
So far so good
Good news is business aviation is back to pre Covid-19 levels at our company and increasing demand.
- schnitzel2k3
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Re: Returning From the US
That's awesome Hawker, keep staying safe. Our flight department is still pretty sleepy as passengers are torn with the mandatory 14 day quarantine.hawker driver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:01 pm I commute to my flying job in the US ever other week, I am away from Canada for 8 days at a time.
I drive across the border in my car then go to work.
Never had a problem going there or coming back to Canada the last few months.
The usual questions from CBSA
How long away? anything to declare? Any guns?
Plus lately they have been asking what cities I have been to?
Did I do any sightseeing while there?
Where did I spend most of my time when not flying? Hotel?
Plus how am I feeling? Any symptom of flu or fever?
Since you are air crew you are exempt from the 14 day quarantine but must report to your local health authority if you have any symptoms.
I do a covid test once a month and our company paid for the antibody test last month.
Still negative.
One big shock is the attitude of people in the US vs Canada.
I see people sitting in the hotel bars next to each other acting as if everything is normal.
Company policy is take out, in room dining only or in the aircraft.
So far so good
Good news is business aviation is back to pre Covid-19 levels at our company and increasing demand.
As for any pilot travelling with a quiet schedule post flight, let's ask ourselves is there any harm in limiting our exposure to our community and bubble after a flight where we might've been exposed? No.
Do we have to? No.
Does it suck? A little.
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Re: Returning From the US
That is correct, but, it does NOT apply to the folks in the back.
Re: Returning From the US
What do you mean? Pilots in the back are also exempt.goldeneagle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:01 amThat is correct, but, it does NOT apply to the folks in the back.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Returning From the US
Exactly. It doesn't matter where you sit, it doesn't matter if you are corporate pilot on an airliner or airline pilot in a small private aircraft. If the purpose of the trip is working as a pilot that's it.digits_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:16 amWhat do you mean? Pilots in the back are also exempt.goldeneagle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:01 amThat is correct, but, it does NOT apply to the folks in the back.
Re: Returning From the US
I know some might disagree, but people in the other thread reported no issues even when they were privately picking up their own airplane. Seems that in practice flying a plane sometime during your trip is enough to be exempt. Doesn't have to be for hire.ahramin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:50 amExactly. It doesn't matter where you sit, it doesn't matter if you are corporate pilot on an airliner or airline pilot in a small private aircraft. If the purpose of the trip is working as a pilot that's it.digits_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:16 amWhat do you mean? Pilots in the back are also exempt.goldeneagle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:01 am
That is correct, but, it does NOT apply to the folks in the back.
Some argue this is not according to the quarantaine rules, but it does seem that in reality it is allowed.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Returning From the US
It's possible that there is an exemption to the quarantine act for private pilots, I wouldn't know as I haven't read the whole thing. What I do know is flying your personal aircraft does not make you flight crew engaged in transportation.
StandingBy, here's the CBSA guide for returning flight crew.
StandingBy, here's the CBSA guide for returning flight crew.
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Re: Returning From the US
The folks riding in the back of a corp jet are not typically pilots, they are the folks that sign the paycheque. They are not exempt from quarantine requirements.digits_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:16 amWhat do you mean? Pilots in the back are also exempt.goldeneagle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:01 amThat is correct, but, it does NOT apply to the folks in the back.
Re: Returning From the US
Wouldn't you need to know why they are traveling before you can say that?goldeneagle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:44 pmThe folks riding in the back of a corp jet are not typically pilots, they are the folks that sign the paycheque. They are not exempt from quarantine requirements.digits_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:16 amWhat do you mean? Pilots in the back are also exempt.goldeneagle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:01 am
That is correct, but, it does NOT apply to the folks in the back.
Re: Returning From the US
Regarding the hotel quarantine or the lack thereof when returning from the US - would this also include training events or would you have to be dressed in uniform and actually be returning from an active airline duty?
Also you mentioned showing them a license - would a foreign (FAA) license also count?
Also you mentioned showing them a license - would a foreign (FAA) license also count?
Re: Returning From the US
Basically you have to ask yourself this question:
"Am I here for work?". If the answer is yes, as a flight crew, you're exempt from the ridiculous restrictions placed on us by the CPoC (Liberals).
"Am I here for work?". If the answer is yes, as a flight crew, you're exempt from the ridiculous restrictions placed on us by the CPoC (Liberals).
Re: Returning From the US
Thank you!
Ok, so I guess self-sponsored training would not count then, even if it is to the benefit of an employer.
Ok, so I guess self-sponsored training would not count then, even if it is to the benefit of an employer.
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Re: Returning From the US
For the record everyone, one of our guys recently commuted back to Canada on the airlines and because he couldn’t initially prove to them that he had a flight scheduled in the next 72hrs, the CBSA agent initially was going to force him into a quarantine hotel like a non exempt traveler. The Issue was worked out, but not without a scramble. This is a change to our previous experiences that reflected the previous posts. Before this, we had no major issues. My advice is that if you can’t prove you have scheduled work in the 72hrs following your arrival by airline, you may encounter some serious friction.
If you arrive operating your own aircraft, you won’t have a problem. It seems commuting crew on airlines have to be a bit more careful of late. Have a company letter, and have a copy of the schedule showing you have flight duty within 72hrs. Right or wrong, the front line officer has the discretion.
If you arrive operating your own aircraft, you won’t have a problem. It seems commuting crew on airlines have to be a bit more careful of late. Have a company letter, and have a copy of the schedule showing you have flight duty within 72hrs. Right or wrong, the front line officer has the discretion.