Aircraft is being reported as Learjet 45-028 XC-VMC which was registered to 'Secretaria de Gobernacion'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7709877.stm
Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
Crash kills Govt. Interior Minister and Anti-Drug Czar, and crashes into a wealthy suburb of Mexico City. Not to second guess anything, but it is Mexico, and we're talking about an aircraft carrying the countries drug czar - crashes on take-off . . . hmmmm.
Aircraft is being reported as Learjet 45-028 XC-VMC which was registered to 'Secretaria de Gobernacion'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7709877.stm
Aircraft is being reported as Learjet 45-028 XC-VMC which was registered to 'Secretaria de Gobernacion'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7709877.stm
Re: Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
With approximately 400 Lear 45's delivered in their ten years of operation, until now there have only been two losses of Lear 45's.
The first was aircraft number N454LJ 45-004 lost during a ground accident during flight testing by Bombardier in October 1998.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "The failure of the pilot to obtain/maintain alignment with the water pool, which resulted in the loss of control. Factors in the accident were the inadequate preflight planning of the flight test facility and the airplane manufacturer which resulted in hazards in the test area and the subsequent collision of the airplane with a vehicle. "
The second loss occurred in Italy June 2003, I-ERJC 45-093 was downed by multiple bird strikes.
As the aircraft took off from Milan, it reportedly struck a number of pigeons. The pilots declared an emergency and requested an immediate return to Linate. The Learjet lost control and crashed into a warehouse near a road on the outskirts of Milan, some 300 metres from the runway. In the vicinity a crowd was watching Italy's national cycling tour Giro d'Italia.
Yesterdays accident, we have a Jet with a solid safety record, being flown in Mexico, a Government operated jet, carrying Mexico's Drug Czar - who must be target number one for all the cartels. Hmmm . . .
The first was aircraft number N454LJ 45-004 lost during a ground accident during flight testing by Bombardier in October 1998.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "The failure of the pilot to obtain/maintain alignment with the water pool, which resulted in the loss of control. Factors in the accident were the inadequate preflight planning of the flight test facility and the airplane manufacturer which resulted in hazards in the test area and the subsequent collision of the airplane with a vehicle. "
The second loss occurred in Italy June 2003, I-ERJC 45-093 was downed by multiple bird strikes.
As the aircraft took off from Milan, it reportedly struck a number of pigeons. The pilots declared an emergency and requested an immediate return to Linate. The Learjet lost control and crashed into a warehouse near a road on the outskirts of Milan, some 300 metres from the runway. In the vicinity a crowd was watching Italy's national cycling tour Giro d'Italia.
Yesterdays accident, we have a Jet with a solid safety record, being flown in Mexico, a Government operated jet, carrying Mexico's Drug Czar - who must be target number one for all the cartels. Hmmm . . .
Re: Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
NTSB SENDS TEAM TO MEXICO TO ASSIST WITH LEARJET AIRCRAFT
ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION
************************************************************
The National Transportation Safety Board sent a team of
investigators to Mexico City, Mexico, to assist in the
investigation of yesterday's accident in which a Learjet L45
(XC-VMC), crashed into a mixed, residential/commercial
neighborhood. It has been reported that all 9 persons on
board, including Mexican Interior Secretary, Juan Camillo
Mourino, were fatally injured.
==========================================
From Aviation Safety Network Click Here
Reports state the Learjet was following Mexicana flight 1692, a B767-300, the Learjet did not comply with the required separation between the two aircraft. Wake Turbulence.
ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION
************************************************************
The National Transportation Safety Board sent a team of
investigators to Mexico City, Mexico, to assist in the
investigation of yesterday's accident in which a Learjet L45
(XC-VMC), crashed into a mixed, residential/commercial
neighborhood. It has been reported that all 9 persons on
board, including Mexican Interior Secretary, Juan Camillo
Mourino, were fatally injured.
==========================================
From Aviation Safety Network Click Here
Reports state the Learjet was following Mexicana flight 1692, a B767-300, the Learjet did not comply with the required separation between the two aircraft. Wake Turbulence.
Re: Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
Flight Global report includes Google Map, and recording of final four minutes of ATC communication.
Unofficially, the crew of XC-VMC was instructed by ATC to cross the radio-ease 'Matthew' at a speed of 180 knots, however the lear remained at a speed of 250 knots.
The Mexicana Boeing 767-300 in front of the Lear, was reported at 183 knots.
As the Lear was turning onto final, at a height of 726 metres, it was reported as 'falling out of the sky'.
Aviation Safety Network this list includes a Lear 25D, a Westwind 1124, a MS 760 Paris Jet, and a Citation 550 - all ran in to wake turbulence and crashed.
XC-VMC is listed as Lear 25 on map, which added to some of the confusion regarding the model type, however confirmed as Lear 45.
Unofficially, the crew of XC-VMC was instructed by ATC to cross the radio-ease 'Matthew' at a speed of 180 knots, however the lear remained at a speed of 250 knots.
The Mexicana Boeing 767-300 in front of the Lear, was reported at 183 knots.
As the Lear was turning onto final, at a height of 726 metres, it was reported as 'falling out of the sky'.
Aviation Safety Network this list includes a Lear 25D, a Westwind 1124, a MS 760 Paris Jet, and a Citation 550 - all ran in to wake turbulence and crashed.
XC-VMC is listed as Lear 25 on map, which added to some of the confusion regarding the model type, however confirmed as Lear 45.
Re: Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
YouTube Video ATC tape and radar video.
Note: this statement was released from CNN; Click here which from what I've read is totally incorrect.
Press statement had said both engines showed they were operating normally until impact, in Spanish, the government spokesperson stated the left engine came off on impact.
Further stated, the FDR, CVR, and engine remains were transported by the Mexican Air Force to USAF facilities in Tuscon Arizona, for investigation by NTSB and Bombardier.
Note: this statement was released from CNN; Click here which from what I've read is totally incorrect.
Press statement had said both engines showed they were operating normally until impact, in Spanish, the government spokesperson stated the left engine came off on impact.
Further stated, the FDR, CVR, and engine remains were transported by the Mexican Air Force to USAF facilities in Tuscon Arizona, for investigation by NTSB and Bombardier.
Re: Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
Latest update;
Mexican statement;
There is an absence of traces on trees and obstacles, there are no cuts or broken cables. The plane struck at an angle of at least 45 degrees; the tip of a left wing impacted a tree. The tip of the right wing is embedded in a car.
#
The plane arrived at the impact in terms of integrity, the plane fell below the cables, and the heat melted the plastic that surrounds them.
#
The primary estimation of the speed is 500 km / h.
#
The impact on the corner of one of the buildings indicates that the remains of the aircraft had a significant speed - about 250-300 km / h.
#
The plane was slowed by a concrete structure. The deceleration of the aircraft was a product of the cars with which it was crashing, and then crashing into a corner of a building, which showed the left engine.
#
The left wing was broken in the initial impact, its leaking fuel.
#
The turbines were found 40 meters away from each other.
#
The right engine was fragmented into two parts, which leads to the conclusion that there was a rotational speed until the fall.
#
All the pieces found are scheduled with a number, name of the piece, and details that allow determnar the position of the piece.
#
The staff is working 24 hours a day.
NTSB response;
Associated Press
MEXICO CITY -- U.S. investigators have found no evidence of foul play in a mysterious plane crash that killed Mexico's second-most powerful official, the American ambassador said Wednesday.
U.S. National Transportation and Safety Board experts say that, so far, nothing in the flight data recorder, cockpit recorder or other evidence indicates that "sabotage or criminal activity caused the crash," Tony Garza said in a statement.
"The preliminary evidence indicates the crash was a tragic accident," he added.
The NTSB team has been in Mexico for a week to help investigate the Nov. 4 crash that killed Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mourino, who was the equivalent of Mexico's vice president and the closest confidant of President Felipe Calderon.
Five people on the ground and nine people on the plane were killed when the Learjet 45 suddenly plunged into an upscale Mexico City neighborhood. Also among those on board was former anti-drug prosecutor Jose Luis Santiago Vasconcelos.
From the start, Mexican investigators have said the crash appeared to be an accident. They ruled out a bomb last week, saying no trace of explosives was found at the crash scene.
Despite the lack of evidence, many Mexicans immediately suspected the crash was another attack by drug cartels, which have increasingly targeted security officials. Vasconcelos had been the target of at least one previous assassination plot.
Garza said the NTSB investigators would leave Mexico on Thursday but the agency would continue to help examine evidence and run simulations to determine what happened.
He gave no indication of whether investigators were close to determining the cause, saying only that "we must now all await the final conclusions" of Mexican aviation officials.
Mexican officials have offered a wide range of possibilities, from human error to turbulence from another plane. They ruled out engine failure last week.
The crash occurred in clear weather, and in their last recorded radio conversation, the plane's flight crew calmly discussed radio frequencies and speed with controllers. The tape went silent just as radar lost the plane's altitude reading.
Mexican statement;
There is an absence of traces on trees and obstacles, there are no cuts or broken cables. The plane struck at an angle of at least 45 degrees; the tip of a left wing impacted a tree. The tip of the right wing is embedded in a car.
#
The plane arrived at the impact in terms of integrity, the plane fell below the cables, and the heat melted the plastic that surrounds them.
#
The primary estimation of the speed is 500 km / h.
#
The impact on the corner of one of the buildings indicates that the remains of the aircraft had a significant speed - about 250-300 km / h.
#
The plane was slowed by a concrete structure. The deceleration of the aircraft was a product of the cars with which it was crashing, and then crashing into a corner of a building, which showed the left engine.
#
The left wing was broken in the initial impact, its leaking fuel.
#
The turbines were found 40 meters away from each other.
#
The right engine was fragmented into two parts, which leads to the conclusion that there was a rotational speed until the fall.
#
All the pieces found are scheduled with a number, name of the piece, and details that allow determnar the position of the piece.
#
The staff is working 24 hours a day.
NTSB response;
Associated Press
MEXICO CITY -- U.S. investigators have found no evidence of foul play in a mysterious plane crash that killed Mexico's second-most powerful official, the American ambassador said Wednesday.
U.S. National Transportation and Safety Board experts say that, so far, nothing in the flight data recorder, cockpit recorder or other evidence indicates that "sabotage or criminal activity caused the crash," Tony Garza said in a statement.
"The preliminary evidence indicates the crash was a tragic accident," he added.
The NTSB team has been in Mexico for a week to help investigate the Nov. 4 crash that killed Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mourino, who was the equivalent of Mexico's vice president and the closest confidant of President Felipe Calderon.
Five people on the ground and nine people on the plane were killed when the Learjet 45 suddenly plunged into an upscale Mexico City neighborhood. Also among those on board was former anti-drug prosecutor Jose Luis Santiago Vasconcelos.
From the start, Mexican investigators have said the crash appeared to be an accident. They ruled out a bomb last week, saying no trace of explosives was found at the crash scene.
Despite the lack of evidence, many Mexicans immediately suspected the crash was another attack by drug cartels, which have increasingly targeted security officials. Vasconcelos had been the target of at least one previous assassination plot.
Garza said the NTSB investigators would leave Mexico on Thursday but the agency would continue to help examine evidence and run simulations to determine what happened.
He gave no indication of whether investigators were close to determining the cause, saying only that "we must now all await the final conclusions" of Mexican aviation officials.
Mexican officials have offered a wide range of possibilities, from human error to turbulence from another plane. They ruled out engine failure last week.
The crash occurred in clear weather, and in their last recorded radio conversation, the plane's flight crew calmly discussed radio frequencies and speed with controllers. The tape went silent just as radar lost the plane's altitude reading.
Re: Horrific Learjet 45 crash today in Mexico City . . .
http://www.vanguardia.com.mx/SACS/XStat ... on_sct.pdf Mexican Govt. report in Spanish.
Clear CVR indications the aircraft ran into the turbulence of the B767.
Google translation of CVR (Don't know whats lost in translation?).
Recording booth:
Copilot lower at 180 Charlie Mike
Pilot: Do you know what? Give me a dot, Alvarito huh?, please
Phone: Just a dot
Recording booth:
Copilot lower at 180 Charlie Mike
Pilot: Do you know what? Give me a dot, Alvarito huh?, please
Phone: Just a dot
Lopez says Meyer ( "the dot may be an indication of Altitude adjustment or a set point to the system of flaps that at the time was set at 20 degrees for landing at the IMTA)
Co-pilot: Yes, you have nothing further to 200 (in reference to reduce speed to 200 knots)
Pilot: We strike the nose
Phone: No, no , let it now
Pilot: Because we are close to leveling, right?
Co-pilot: Yes (at the moment is that the command pilot of the aircraft requested the opinion of the co-pilot to use the rudder to lift the nose of the aircraft and proceed well and reduce the speed that was to reach 180 knots to had been instructed by air traffic services. They remain 00:44:12)
The traffic controller instructed the Mexican to contact the control tower at the IMTA to receive landing instructions.
Answer; Having Mexican 692.
Recording booth:
Pilot: There is already stabilized
Phone: OK
Pilot: There is
Phone: down (referring to the flaps had fallen to the position of 20 degrees to which they had been ordered)
00:45:05 hours
The talk continues in the cabin:
Pilot: I will go to 160 by that I bring back (in clear reference to it had realized that the aircraft was heavy ahead)
Phone: It is beginning to turn
Pilot: So it is 5 miles from us
Pilot: I get eight eight, please
Phone: Eight eight hundred
00:45:57:
Traffic control service educates air transportation VMC to contact the control tower at the IMTA.
Pilot: Good Morning, thanks
Mexicana was the 1692 nine thousand 300 feet in altitude and at a speed of 168 knots. The VMC was nine thousand and 700 feet with a speed of 209 knots.
Recording booth:
Pilot: Oral turbulence of the latter
Phone: Oh GUEY
Pilot: Oh bastard
On the enviroment: What happened rea
00:43:13
Recording booth:
The pilot makes clear reference to the turbulence left by the ship that will precede it.
00:46:18 hours
Phone: Oh bastard
Pilot: Ay, ay
Pilot: Alvaro, what we do, Alvaro
Phone: Leave it, Leave it, Leave
Pilot: Alvaaro Tuya
Phone: Oh bastard
Pilot: Ay, ay
Pilot: Son of your #$@%! mother
Pilot: No Alvaro
00:46:23
Enviroment: similar to the sound of the alarm speaker altitude, while the alarm system alerted to local terrain.
TERRAIN TERRAIN
Copilot: Doisite
END
Clear CVR indications the aircraft ran into the turbulence of the B767.
Google translation of CVR (Don't know whats lost in translation?).
Recording booth:
Copilot lower at 180 Charlie Mike
Pilot: Do you know what? Give me a dot, Alvarito huh?, please
Phone: Just a dot
Recording booth:
Copilot lower at 180 Charlie Mike
Pilot: Do you know what? Give me a dot, Alvarito huh?, please
Phone: Just a dot
Lopez says Meyer ( "the dot may be an indication of Altitude adjustment or a set point to the system of flaps that at the time was set at 20 degrees for landing at the IMTA)
Co-pilot: Yes, you have nothing further to 200 (in reference to reduce speed to 200 knots)
Pilot: We strike the nose
Phone: No, no , let it now
Pilot: Because we are close to leveling, right?
Co-pilot: Yes (at the moment is that the command pilot of the aircraft requested the opinion of the co-pilot to use the rudder to lift the nose of the aircraft and proceed well and reduce the speed that was to reach 180 knots to had been instructed by air traffic services. They remain 00:44:12)
The traffic controller instructed the Mexican to contact the control tower at the IMTA to receive landing instructions.
Answer; Having Mexican 692.
Recording booth:
Pilot: There is already stabilized
Phone: OK
Pilot: There is
Phone: down (referring to the flaps had fallen to the position of 20 degrees to which they had been ordered)
00:45:05 hours
The talk continues in the cabin:
Pilot: I will go to 160 by that I bring back (in clear reference to it had realized that the aircraft was heavy ahead)
Phone: It is beginning to turn
Pilot: So it is 5 miles from us
Pilot: I get eight eight, please
Phone: Eight eight hundred
00:45:57:
Traffic control service educates air transportation VMC to contact the control tower at the IMTA.
Pilot: Good Morning, thanks
Mexicana was the 1692 nine thousand 300 feet in altitude and at a speed of 168 knots. The VMC was nine thousand and 700 feet with a speed of 209 knots.
Recording booth:
Pilot: Oral turbulence of the latter
Phone: Oh GUEY
Pilot: Oh bastard
On the enviroment: What happened rea
00:43:13
Recording booth:
The pilot makes clear reference to the turbulence left by the ship that will precede it.
00:46:18 hours
Phone: Oh bastard
Pilot: Ay, ay
Pilot: Alvaro, what we do, Alvaro
Phone: Leave it, Leave it, Leave
Pilot: Alvaaro Tuya
Phone: Oh bastard
Pilot: Ay, ay
Pilot: Son of your #$@%! mother
Pilot: No Alvaro
00:46:23
Enviroment: similar to the sound of the alarm speaker altitude, while the alarm system alerted to local terrain.
TERRAIN TERRAIN
Copilot: Doisite
END
