Hi!
As our Piper Chieftain is getting old now we are thinking of either refurbish it completely or replace it with a newer C208B.
The leg we are daily operating is only 50nm, takes 25min with the Chieftain at a very economic cruise setting at 2000ft. We are using the Chieftain in total 600h per year.
Does anybody have experience in operating a C208B on a comparable route like ours? Any dry operation cost you can send us (PM)? Problems with the lifetime of the turbine due to the high number of cycles?
Thanks in advance!
Operating costs Cessna Grand Caravan
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
-
oldncold
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1015
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:17 am
- Location: south of 78N latitude , north of 30'latitude
Re: Operating costs Cessna Grand Caravan
. all turbine aircraft have cycle life or time life components . the 208b is a awesome aircraft if used with in its design limits.
1/the cycles maintenance will eat you on a legs of less than .5 for a van .
unless you can charge a minimum trip hourly fee.
maintenance costs depending on location and availability of skilled ame's
cost about $125.0 hr to 150. all in including reserves for overhaul.
Your insurance for a chieftain is about 25000 to 35000 yr for commercial ops give or take 5k .
Take that figure and double that and add 15-20k $ for your first yr using the van . expensive machine = higher insurance costs.
training all must attend sim course ( usually 2 slots are usually included with purchase of new 208 and 1 maintenance slot) but every new pilot after that will require that to fly it ifr with pax or at night. about a 9k touch pe trainee and additional costs of airfare and hotels etc I would recommend recurrent for cp and long term employees every 24 for months. and more often if you do alot of vfr and only occasionally ifr.
a 50 mile hope = .3 burning 350pds hr of jet a = 117 lbs divided by 1.85 pounds per liter =63 liters x your local fuel price = fuel cost per leg.
so if your not scared off yet here is the cost total
based on your 600 useage per yr
395hr direct costs
178hr fixed costs
252hr capital aquistion cost .( 1.7mill x 8%x 12yrs =3.3mill / 264months =12221month /50hrs per month =252ish ) rememeber your gst or hst wil have to be paid so your down payment will be chewed up by the tax initially
pilot salary 50-60 k anything less you get unhappy pilots drivn expensive turbines hard and your staff turnover and training costs go thru the roof.
=908hr / 150miles hr block average speed lot of short hops = grand total of 6.08cents a mile true cost NOW SOME will argue that you don't need to worry about the captial purchase cost. you get it out a large portion at the resale or in depreciation allowance thru taxation however im not an accountant I feel it is better to budget the true cost and then have operational flexibility in your pricing structure than to not have that in ones lean months.
oh keep the navajo in addition to the van some clients no matter how hard you try to convince them won't get on anything with less than 2 engines /lets leave that debate alone it has been hammered enough eh.
hope that helps and fly safe. cheers
1/the cycles maintenance will eat you on a legs of less than .5 for a van .
unless you can charge a minimum trip hourly fee.
maintenance costs depending on location and availability of skilled ame's
cost about $125.0 hr to 150. all in including reserves for overhaul.
Your insurance for a chieftain is about 25000 to 35000 yr for commercial ops give or take 5k .
Take that figure and double that and add 15-20k $ for your first yr using the van . expensive machine = higher insurance costs.
training all must attend sim course ( usually 2 slots are usually included with purchase of new 208 and 1 maintenance slot) but every new pilot after that will require that to fly it ifr with pax or at night. about a 9k touch pe trainee and additional costs of airfare and hotels etc I would recommend recurrent for cp and long term employees every 24 for months. and more often if you do alot of vfr and only occasionally ifr.
a 50 mile hope = .3 burning 350pds hr of jet a = 117 lbs divided by 1.85 pounds per liter =63 liters x your local fuel price = fuel cost per leg.
so if your not scared off yet here is the cost total
based on your 600 useage per yr
395hr direct costs
178hr fixed costs
252hr capital aquistion cost .( 1.7mill x 8%x 12yrs =3.3mill / 264months =12221month /50hrs per month =252ish ) rememeber your gst or hst wil have to be paid so your down payment will be chewed up by the tax initially
pilot salary 50-60 k anything less you get unhappy pilots drivn expensive turbines hard and your staff turnover and training costs go thru the roof.
=908hr / 150miles hr block average speed lot of short hops = grand total of 6.08cents a mile true cost NOW SOME will argue that you don't need to worry about the captial purchase cost. you get it out a large portion at the resale or in depreciation allowance thru taxation however im not an accountant I feel it is better to budget the true cost and then have operational flexibility in your pricing structure than to not have that in ones lean months.
oh keep the navajo in addition to the van some clients no matter how hard you try to convince them won't get on anything with less than 2 engines /lets leave that debate alone it has been hammered enough eh.
hope that helps and fly safe. cheers
-
PanEuropean
- Rank 5
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:03 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Operating costs Cessna Grand Caravan
Federal Express (FedEx) operates a C208 daily between Victoria and Vancouver - that is very similar to the route that you propose. Perhaps you could contact them and ask them for their thoughts.NilsBz wrote:...Does anybody have experience in operating a C208B on a comparable route like ours? Any dry operation cost you can send us...
Re: Operating costs Cessna Grand Caravan
I do the same run as FedEx (Morningstar) in a 208B. Cant't speak to it's direct operating costs, but it burns just under 400 lbs an hour. GDC says ~150-200 lbs per trip, but thats if I flew the whole arrival and appoach every time.
"I have control!"
Re: Operating costs Cessna Grand Caravan
Its been a while since I flew the Caravan but I believe the only time you need to send your pilots to the sim is if you are running single pilot IFR with pax. If you are a VFR or freight only operation I don't think its required.
-
aviator2010
- Rank 5
- Posts: 397
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:19 pm
Re: Operating costs Cessna Grand Caravan
Day VFR maybe, but single pilot IFR (freight) with a lower time guy (1500-2500) $9000 is pretty cheap to have a confident knowledgable pilot up front.Its been a while since I flew the Caravan but I believe the only time you need to send your pilots to the sim is if you are running single pilot IFR with pax. If you are a VFR or freight only operation I don't think its required.
Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010
Re: Operating costs Cessna Grand Caravan
I agree the sim training is great. I was just saying I don't think it is required by Transport Canada unless its IFR with pax thats all.
