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jlfd26
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#1 Post by jlfd26 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:36 am

hello everybody.

I am starting a little search for a big company CEO. I currently work for this company but not at all for a pilot position and I would like to introduce the idea of a business plane for this person.

If anybody could provide me some information I would be very grateful. The person travels mostly in north america having offices in Colorado and Quebec and other dispersed everywhere.

I was thinking first of the piaggio because of the operating costs that are really less than the average jet and almost the same speed.

thank you for any info
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cj555
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Re: information

#2 Post by cj555 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:13 am

Have you considered the Eclipse 550 from Eclipse Aerospace?

It is a VLJ (very light jet) which offers very economical operating costs comparable to a turboprop, but provides jet speed (370kts/430mph) and range (1125nm) for its passengers.

http://eclipseaerospace.net/550.php
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Re: information

#3 Post by cj555 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:22 am

I would compare the Piaggio P180 Avanti II to the Eclipse 550. Look at things such as acquisition cost, operating cost, speed and range. I believe the Piaggio is faster (402kts) and has a longer range (1500nm) then the Eclipse 550, but is more expensive to purchase and may be more expensive to operate.

Some key factors to consider would be what is the typical range he would use it for? Is it a few long trips, or many short hop flights? The economics of a jet engine come into play during high altitude cruise, so if the majority of the flying is short hops, the Piaggio (turboprop) would probably be more economical.

Many things to consider, good luck!
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Re: information

#4 Post by cj555 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:26 am

I would also consider the Pilatus PC-12, it is a single engine turboprop which may be more economical then the twin turboprop Piaggio P180 Avanti II.

http://www.pilatuscanada.com/
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bizjets101
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Re: information

#5 Post by bizjets101 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:50 am

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-b ... 009-9?op=1

If you are looking at 400 hours plus per year, great, if not - you may try a fractional outfit like AirSprint - who have Citation XL's, Citation CJ2's and PC-12's along with a Toronto base.

If you go it on your own, it may be wise to hire one of the local firms to operate your aircraft for you, Chartright, Image Air, NovaJet at YYZ for example - you can also sit down with them and get a better idea of what might best suit your needs. If your in Montreal Execaire, Aviation Starlink, Skyservice.

You may also contact a local private owner/operator of their own jet - and find out their experience - one that comes to mind is Centura which operate their Mustang out of Buttonville.
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Re: information

#6 Post by tired of the ground » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:59 am

The acquisition of the proper airplane is a very complicated task. You have to look at more than the destinations. How much room/luxury does the individual need? How many people? Do they mind fuel stops? Will the aircraft be chartered out?

Notwithstanding the above. You're talking a North America Jet. Montreal to Denver is 1600NM. Turboprops are too slow to fly cross country at those distances. Quebec to Colorado in a Mach .80 jet is ~4 hours. In a King Air/PC12 that becomes ~8 Hours. I've flown a Piaggio and while it's a nice airplane it's a range or payload type airplane. Its MMO is only Mach .7, you're not going very far at that speed.

A CJ1 is going to have a range of 1450NM. At 2 Million, It still doesn't have the range You're looking for. A CJ3 will do it with a range of 1800 NM but we're now talking around 4 million. A Hawker 800 will fill the same role as well with a similar purchase price.

Now lets look at operating costs. You're probably going to be in the $350,000/yr range in fixed costs before you've even flown one mile. After that you're looking at ~$2000-3000 per hour of flying. Don't forget the Maintenance. If one of your pilots has a bad day and toasts an engine (or a bird does it) your out another million. Silly little snags that Maintenance cant figure out can also cost a fortune.

These numbers are very rough. The sky's the limit in terms of what you can pay. If money is actually a concern it will ALWAYS be cheaper to fly commercial, even business class. If you run these numbers by him and he doesn't throw you out of the office then a plane may be in his future. A lot of guys have the romantic notion of a personal plane and have no idea about what the costs could be.

Don't get me wrong, Flying outside of the airlines is far and away the greatest way to get anywhere. You just need to have the cash to play the game. I'd heard recently that an Corporate jet owner has to be worth about $75 million before they can jump in the ring. If He's still interested after you tell him all the above then give one of those management companies a call. They would love to talk to anyone who can afford to buy or charter an airplane.
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Re: information

#7 Post by jlfd26 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:25 am

Thank you all for the answers.

I knew it would not be cheap to fly one of these planes. I just started my tour to get some infos and i think that I could talk to one of the fractional like one of you proposed it seems to be a great idea and i din't think about it at first.
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Re: information

#8 Post by bizjets101 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:51 am

Read this from AirSprint

For Info

Image
AirSprint Cessna 560XL Citation Excel C-FCXL runway 33 Buttonville CYKZ
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Re: information

#9 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Be careful when speaking with the management companies and aircraft salesmen. The management companies will ALWAYS underestimate the operating/management costs, and the salesmen will ALWAYS exaggerate the aircraft capabilities.
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jlfd26
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Re: information

#10 Post by jlfd26 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:19 am

thank you everyone.

for the follow-up: I waas not lucky (or convincing) enough so the Ceo will not be using a private aircraft in the near future.

crossing my fingers and toes that he could change his mind in a couple of months

thanks for all the help and great information
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Re: information

#11 Post by bigwalleye » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:02 pm

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Re: information

#12 Post by NovaBoy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:12 am

Its the old adage "time is money". My boss can go on a week long trip in the jet and do what would probably take 2-3 weeks to do if he flew commercial.
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Re: information

#13 Post by x-wind » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:40 pm

Same with my boss. I bomb around on missions in a King Air 90 that cost us well under a million. For me it was an easier sell because he's not going to major US cities all the time so airline connections rack up the travel time involved, making the comparison favouritable for the King Air. 4 hour legs are indeed long for the pampered CEOs but, your going where you want, more or less direct, when you want w/ the option of changing the plan anytime.
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