P.O registration document

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x-wind
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P.O registration document

#1 Post by x-wind » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:14 pm

Has anyone received the Private Operator Registration document in advance of the regulations being published?

Any information received from a TC delegate that gives some forecasting info to things?

I've been told my application will be processed when the regulations are published ... Which has me concerned that I'll be "out of business" for awhile while they get to issuing me a document. Further, I won't be doing any GPS approaches until they review that & my other requested ops specs. I've not held an OC under CBAA because the king air was purchase durning the interm order & was not applicable.

I'm considering applying for an OC under the interm order so as not to have to stop operations while they issue me a P.O reg. document. How silly is that though.


Cheers,
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Last edited by x-wind on Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wallypilot
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Re: P.O registration document

#2 Post by wallypilot » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:11 pm

Silly doesn't even begin to describe it. It's a complete cluster f&@k. TC has not considered any submissions from stakeholders on this, and are ramming through an incomplete piece of legislation. Expect confusion to reign for some time once the regs come into force.

To answer your question, though, I am pretty sure the may 1 deadline is a soft one and that you can continue to operate during that window between the in force date and the date you get your PO Reg Doc. TC has said it will allow a one year "adjustment period" for operators to come in to compliance with the new regs.

TC has no clue what it is doing, and further, it's doing an abysmal job of disseminating any information, and an even worse job of providing any guidance at all to operators.

TC is so short of resources, I don't know if you'd even get a POC under the interim order before the new regs come into force if they stick to the currently planned in force date. Just try to get someone on the phone at TC. It's brutal.
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Re: P.O registration document

#3 Post by Changes in Latitudes » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:47 pm

I wonder if the FAA is going to see a rush of aircraft being registered in the US, with all this mess unfolding.
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Re: P.O registration document

#4 Post by x-wind » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:59 pm

That is the first I've heard " may 1 deadline is a soft one and that you can continue to operate during that window between the in force date and the date you get your PO Reg Doc. TC has said it will allow a one year "adjustment period" for operators to come in to compliance with the new regs. "

That's the crux of the issue. My TCCA representative is saying, what you've proposed is, categorically not the case. As does the the Canadian Gazette "26. These Regulations come into force on the day on which they are registered."

So I wouldn't bank on this at all. If you could firm up your suspicions it would be great - fingers crossed you can.

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Re: P.O registration document

#5 Post by wallypilot » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:50 pm

Sorry, wasn't totally clear in previous post:

I agree, it hasn't been published and shouldn't be relied upon. You need to hear it yourself from TC. And don't think I mean you shouldn't get your paperwork in by May 1. All I am saying is that a TC rep has told us that as long as you get your paperwork in by May 1, and if transport doesn't get back to you with the necessary documents by the planned in force date, you will likely still be legal to operate until they get your Reg Doc to you. No doubt, you would have to coordinate that with TC. This is for current TPOC holders and current private operators that will have to transition to the new regime. Not for new startups, by any means.

Definitely, don't take the word of an anonymous poster on the internet....find out for yourself.
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Re: P.O registration document

#6 Post by Aeroplane17 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:52 pm

So a single pilot/ single client/ small c90 is now treated like 703 ops basically. What a crock.

If anyone has any info/ templates on the initial TPOC process please pm me.

Thanks!
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Re: P.O registration document

#7 Post by wallypilot » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:46 am

Aeroplane17 wrote:So a single pilot/ single client/ small c90 is now treated like 703 ops basically. What a crock.

Yes it is a crock. But more like treated like a 604 operation. 604 will continue to be less stringent than 703 I believe. The biggest change from current interim order 604 that affects us will be having to do a check ride every 2 years. For you it may mean having to get an MSA, Ops Specs, an Ops Manual, SOP's, and even SMS.

Aeroplane17 wrote: If anyone has any info/ templates on the initial TPOC process please pm me.

If you are currently operating a private aircaft that doesn't need a POC you need to get in touch with TC to see what you need to do and when. Alternatively, CBAA might be able to start you down the right path since no one at TC ever answers the phone.

It's a cluster, no doubt.
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Re: P.O registration document

#8 Post by Aeroplane17 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:17 am

wallypilot wrote:For you it may mean having to get an MSA, Ops Specs, an Ops Manual, SOP's, and even SMS.
You got it. All of the above.

The best part is in the gazette TC explains they had a "focus group" that suggested some very good/ practical ideas. Then they go on to explain that they basically ignored everything suggested and we're going todo it this way and "save us money" by not paying for CBAA audits....ya we'll see how that works out. Typical TC.

We should just all protest and register our aircraft in Delaware (no tax) under an N number with part 91 authority. The way these POC's should be run.

This should be common sense flying, not every little detail in a binder that no one really follows anyways. Just paperwork bullshit to keep TC at bay and when shit hits the fan they can nail you for not following your bs paperwork to the "T". Not saying we'll do this but I've worked for many operators that have a beautifully written Ops Manual,SMS and don't practice a lot what is in there but TC doesn't know because they don't care about that stuff, as long as the paperwork is good. You're a perfect operator.

If you are currently operating a private aircaft that doesn't need a POC you need to get in touch with TC to see what you need to do and when. Alternatively, CBAA might be able to start you down the right path since no one at TC ever answers the phone.

It's a cluster, no doubt.
Thanks for the info Wally. Looking forward to the cluster and a complete waste of time and energy.
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Re: P.O registration document

#9 Post by wallypilot » Mon May 12, 2014 2:42 pm

So, for the record, TC has actually responded quite quickly to us regarding the above. Granted, we had most of this stuff in place as a private operator before this so it wasn't too much of a stretch. We already had ops specs, MSA, SOP's and a POC ops manual under CBAA.

One thing of note: it looks like the new regs will continue to have the option of training to standard, and the check ride will be optional. This from the CBAA the other day after a few weeks of pressure on TC to do away with the proposal for mandatory check ride.

I don't envy the Pressurized Turbo Prop operators that have to set up all this stuff though....Does anyone know if TC is going to back off on this at all?
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Re: P.O registration document

#10 Post by x-wind » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:45 pm

So ... The regulations have been published. They're just not online yet. I've not received my registration document.
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Re: P.O registration document

#11 Post by wallypilot » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:05 pm

We did get ours. I was very surprised with how prompt TC was.
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Re: P.O registration document

#12 Post by Prodriver » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:14 am

This is stupid, they (TC) should have just left all the Equipment that was 12500lbs. and below out as per the original ICAO mandate. That is how a bunch of Turbo props just operated for two years with no issues. The insurance industry and the CADORS system police this sector and there is no real need for any of this silly crap. If they can't leave it alone then for god sakes make it "for hire and not for hire Private" real simple. The rules are there for the commercial operators and they can handle them, its the private guys that are getting buried alive with paper. That new paper work from TC and those guys that made up the focus group who worked on there own agendas is absolute garbage and to call it anything else is just wrong IMHO.
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Re: P.O registration document

#13 Post by wallypilot » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:11 pm

Prodriver wrote:This is stupid, they (TC) should have just left all the Equipment that was 12500lbs. and below out as per the original ICAO mandate. That is how a bunch of Turbo props just operated for two years with no issues. The insurance industry and the CADORS system police this sector and there is no real need for any of this silly crap. If they can't leave it alone then for god sakes make it "for hire and not for hire Private" real simple. The rules are there for the commercial operators and they can handle them, its the private guys that are getting buried alive with paper. That new paper work from TC and those guys that made up the focus group who worked on there own agendas is absolute garbage and to call it anything else is just wrong IMHO.
For sure. The private guys as you mentioned are getting unnessecarily screwed over.
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Re: P.O registration document

#14 Post by Liftdump » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:38 am

Trust me the FAA is open for buisness
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