Runners/Joggers

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Changes in Latitudes
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Runners/Joggers

#1 Post by Changes in Latitudes » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:07 pm

Any of you guys into running/jogging much? I do it whenever I can, I'm not designed for it per se (short stumpy legs), but I do enjoy it, especially outdoors. I don't enjoy treadmills due to the monotony of it.

How are your 5k times? I am generally happy if I can keep it under 30min, but I am really not improving like I did when I first started running a few years back (I've been in and out of it due to a wounded foot). I gave up on really worrying about my times, and am trying for distance, 7-8km seems to be just fine but after that I start to get bored and even if I have paced myself well with energy left, I have had enough. I generally get out 3-4 times a week, depending on my schedule.

Any running tips/inspiration from the pros would be welcomed!
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#2 Post by North Shore » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:34 am

Changes, I love running! It's a great way to get in a workout without taking up too much time. I can get dressed, out the door, run, back and showered in an hour - much easier (for me) that going off to the gym. Not to mention, I hate the concept of driving somewhere to go for exercise! I last about 5 minutes on a treadmill, but I can see their usefulness in a place like Winnipeg in January :lol: I used to ride my bike a lot, but it's completely impractical while on the road...

I've never had too many problems with boredom, as I'm trying to run on trails as much as possible (also helps to ward off injuries) I've found that switching off mentally on a trail usually ends up in a face-plant, courtesy of a tree root!
Perhaps another way to keep yourself interested would be to get focused on a 25 min 5K? - knocking your 6min/km down to 5min... Then you'll have a focus on what you want to achieve on any particular run, and a grand plan in mind. Certainly, I find that when I concentrate my thoughts (some call it visualisation!) on how I'm going to feel/think when I am on the home stretch of my goal race keeps me focused when my legs are getting heavy. I find it harder to get out the door if I've got nothing specific to do in terms of today's run other than just running for 45 minutes, say... a specific plan for what I am going to do on that day is a real motivator.

Get your foot sorted ASAP - injuries tend to breed injuries, as you take a week/month off to recuperate, and then jump back in as strong as you left off, and another injury crops up.. But then, (personally) being 40+, means you can't take the workload that you did in your 30's..

!!!STRETCH!!! I've found that if someone had beaten that into me earlier, it would have warded off some injuries also..

Times? Well, I haven't run a 5k in about 5 years, but I did a 1:30 1/2 marathon a few years back, and a sub-40 10K last April.. I think that those numbers might well start to get bigger in the forthcoming years, tho! Time will tell..

HAve fun!
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#3 Post by roadrunner » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:54 pm

Although I generally agree they're not as rewarding as a real run, treadmills have there place in a training program. Sometimes the weather just sucks too much to get outside. Get yourself a good music player and some proper open headphones (not earbuds), that'll help.

As for tips- buy the Running Room book, it's pretty good and will answer most of the questions and give you some training programs to follow. My best 5K is the Pearson runway run which I've done in a shade over 22 minutes. My best half marathon is 1:45.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#4 Post by Sheila » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:20 pm

Here's a special question, how are you supposed to resume normal breathing after running? Is it wrong to try and take deep breaths? What if you don't like rapid breathing because you think you feel out of breath?
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#5 Post by North Shore » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:52 am

:?: Having a little trouble with this, Sheila. What do you mean? You're supposed to breathe hard after running - it's exercise.
However, I start off with a 5 minute walk, trying to speed up the pace so that by the time 6 minutes rolls around, I'm ready to start running, and it's not that big a shock for my system. Likewise, I try and slow down at the end of my run, and get my breathing rate down, then finish off with a 5 minute walk slowing off, so that by the time I stop, I'm not out of breath at all..
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#6 Post by sounder » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:56 am

Most people new to running go out WAY TOO HARD when they start a running program. North Shore is bang on with a good slow warm up and warm down. Elite runners only do 2-3 hard runs per week or else they risk burn out or injury. If you are going at a pace where it is difficult to talk then you are going way too hard. It will feel slow but eventually you will get faster as your body gets fitter. Running is affordable and your best bang for your buck in terms of limited time to exercise: elite marathoners train 10-14 hours per week, elite cyclists train 30-40 hours per week.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#7 Post by Changes in Latitudes » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:22 am

Can't agree more about the risk to injury, I've messed up my ankle/foot and it has translated into some decent knee pain. This is all due to pushing it too far and being too cheap to invest in a good pair of shoes.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#8 Post by North Shore » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:30 pm

sounder wrote:Most people new to running go out WAY TOO HARD when they start a running program. North Shore is bang on with a good slow warm up and warm down. Elite runners only do 2-3 hard runs per week or else they risk burn out or injury. If you are going at a pace where it is difficult to talk then you are going way too hard. It will feel slow but eventually you will get faster as your body gets fitter. Running is affordable and your best bang for your buck in terms of limited time to exercise: elite marathoners train 10-14 hours per week, elite cyclists train 30-40 hours per week.
Indeed! If you're just starting out, Sheila, go out the front door, walk for 5 minutes, then a further 4, and the 5th, jog. Repeat the 4min walk/1min run for 5 cycles in total, followed by a 5 min cool down walk, every other day for a week or so. The next week, go to a 3 min walk/2 min run, again for 5 cycles, beginning and ending with a 5 minute walk. Week 3, you'll get up to 2 walk/3run; week 4 sees you at 1w, 4r, and the 5th week should see you running all 5 minutes. Then, if you want to run longer add 5 minutes every week until you get to your duration... Some people alternate strength training on their non-running days, but always take one day off to be a complete couch potato, as your body will need the rest. (That's the day you get to splurge on your diet and eat ice cream, chicken wings, chips etc.. that you've been avoiding all the rest of the week :wink: ..)

If any of those jumps from, say 2 mins run to 3 mins, seem too high, then stay at the lower level for another few days, until you become accustomed to the workload.

Also, as CIL says: invest in a good pair of shoes.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#9 Post by ettw » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:07 pm

Changes in Latitudes wrote:Can't agree more about the risk to injury, I've messed up my ankle/foot and it has translated into some decent knee pain. This is all due to pushing it too far and being too cheap to invest in a good pair of shoes.
Good on ya CIL for this thread. I should be doing more of this. Hell, I should get off the couch of 935 and walk more. But you've got me thinking. The wife is starting jogging now and she won't let me forget it (like most other things we don't agree on) but she is looking great for it. That alone should be an inspiration. Damn, now I AM going to have to start walking more and start jogging this summer.

Are you sure the ankle and knee injuries weren't from getting into and out of the seat in our retired ride? :D

Thanks for keep it real.

Cheers,

ETTW
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#10 Post by Changes in Latitudes » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:01 pm

If anything, ETTW, it was going from that wonderful bird to cramming myself into the current ride. Thankfully my body resembles a bumpy mound of play dough that can form around shapes at will.

Now that you'll be running, I simply must ponder: could tofu be far behind?
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#11 Post by Slats » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:29 pm

Sounds to me like you've hit a textbook exercise plateau. Happens with any form of exercise from running to weight training. After weeks of repetition, our bodies get used to what we subject them to and are able to perform the action with less effort and exertion. To break through a plateau you have to change things up so your body has to work harder again. Change up intensity, duration, schedule or even the exercise itself. Replace one run with a shorter, faster one. Another with a longer one. Try throwing some swimming or biking or weight training into the mix.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#12 Post by Sheila » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:14 pm

Thanks North Shore that sounds like a decent routine I can try and the breathing issue I will walk through. The rapid breathing was a shock to me that's all. Someday I may even do a "hard run". Right now a hard run for me will be a light jog on the tread mill, ha ha.

Oh, I heard we can have our best fitness in our forties.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#13 Post by North Shore » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:47 pm

^ Indeed! I'm 44, and faster/in better shape now than I ever was in high school...
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#14 Post by High and Behind » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:01 pm

North Shore wrote:^ Indeed! I'm 44, and faster/in better shape now than I ever was in high school...
And you still have trouble making alerts!! :P :P
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#15 Post by High and Behind » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:07 pm

I better qualify my previous post since I have been admonished by North Shore in a PM for being a smart a$$.

He is very punctual.......whenever I drive him to work.
And yes he is very quick........to avoid any responsibility.
You would never know he is 44......since he acts like he's 8.
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Sorry. didn't mean to hijack this post.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#16 Post by cap41 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:59 am

Can't say it enough GOOD PROPER fitting shoes. For a runner shoes should alway be a half size large than causal shoes or you run the risk of losing toe nails. In a race my best 10K is 40mins. my best half marathon is 1.25.
Running is always about slowly building time. When training for long distance, its better to run 2 hours and run 20km. than it would be to 22km in 1 and a half hours. Its about keeping your body in motion.
Also, if you want to get fast. its time to run hills, and do sprints.

Stretching is not a huge thing before running, intact i just get dressed and go. But, after running it is imperative. Many runners suffer knee pain, when in fact its an ITB strain. ITB is the band that runs from hip to knee. It must be stretched after a long run.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#17 Post by AirFrame » Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:41 am

I trained for and ran two 10K runs (49:00 and 45:00 respectively) but never got under the 45:00 time needed to get into the seeded group. I think if I was in the seeded group on both of those runs I could have been closer to the 40:00 mark, as the run I was doing was massively popular... Just getting started on the run takes almost 5 minutes due to the sheer number of participants.

Both times I suffered from serious knee injuries by the time I finished. They would usually show up about three weeks before the run, and i'm just stubborn enough to run through the pain to finish... :P

Recently i've switched to barefoot running and the knee issues are gone but i'm still working up to the 10km level again. I'm taking it a lot slower based on previous experience and the knowledge that my feet need to learn to strengthen up. My feet are strong now, so i'm building up endurance again.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#18 Post by cap41 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:58 pm

BArefoot has it advantages, It requires different posture and foot strike. Takes a lot of concentration. I find after 25 mins, i revert back to normal running posture due to fatigue. The debate will rage on for years which form is better.

Another idea is 2 different pair of shoes so you are never running with the exact same foot impact. I wear one pair for runs under 7k and another pair for runs over 7k.

Also, on running 10k races. are the races not chip timed? If not you should run one that has chip timing. (almost all do) that way it doesn't matter when you start the race the chip will activate when you cross the start line. Regardless, 45mins is an incredible time.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#19 Post by AirFrame » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:13 pm

cap41 wrote:BArefoot has it advantages, It requires different posture and foot strike. Takes a lot of concentration. I find after 25 mins, i revert back to normal running posture due to fatigue. The debate will rage on for years which form is better.
And Vibram has just lost a class-action lawsuit from people who have managed to get a scientific opinion that barefoot isn't any "better", just "different". That alone will cause more harm to the barefoot movement than anything.

Personally, I find my feet are much, much happier running barefoot. I love my five-finger shoes, I have started flying with them as well as they give me much better feedback on the rudders. Recently I bought a pair of Merrell trail gloves too (barefoot design, but with a "normal" toe box) and have switched to them exclusively at work. My job is about 50% walking around and I find them much more comfortable than runners.
Also, on running 10k races. are the races not chip timed? If not you should run one that has chip timing. (almost all do) that way it doesn't matter when you start the race the chip will activate when you cross the start line. Regardless, 45mins is an incredible time.
True, but the chip only helps if you're up to running speed when you cross the starting gate. If you're still stuck in a throng of (mostly) pedestrians when you cross, and for the next 5 minutes or so until the pack opens up, your time will still suck.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#20 Post by 5x5 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:57 am

One thing to keep in mind is that focusing on your time compared to others can be defeating rather than motivating. There are so many variables that impact on what you as an individual can attain.

For example, when I was running a lot (I bike more now) I did my best 10K at 38:43 while I was 180 lbs and my best marathon at 3:21. Most of the pace calculators you find will show that with a 10k time like that I should do a marathon at just over 3 hours. So either I'm a wimp in the longer distances or just not "average" like calculators assume. Plus a few years later after I added more weight training to my program and went up to 195 lbs, my marathon time increased to 3:34.

As others have said start easy, both in the running activity itself and each time out. You'll feel when you're ready to do more and go faster. It can be nice to run with others if the opportunity presents itself but I found I had to do runs alone as well because it can be tough with others when you are either holding back to not leave them behind or killing yourself trying to keep up and not hold the other(s) back.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#21 Post by North Shore » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:47 am

My best 10k times have come at the TC10k in Victoria. At the start, there are self-seeding banners according to expected finish times. I simply seeded myself 5 minutes faster, and tucked in at the tail end of that group, so that as the gun went off, I was 'leading' my time group..
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#22 Post by AirFrame » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:30 am

North Shore wrote:My best 10k times have come at the TC10k in Victoria. At the start, there are self-seeding banners according to expected finish times. I simply seeded myself 5 minutes faster, and tucked in at the tail end of that group, so that as the gun went off, I was 'leading' my time group..
The Sun Run has runners grouped like that as well. The catch is that it's been going on so long, and there are SO MANY PEOPLE that anyone who is on their second or third year ranks themselves one group faster than they really are trying to do exactly what you do. That's why they restrict the seeded group at the front to certain bib colours (for the seeded runners) and you can't get one unless you have a registered time on a previous run that meets the entrance requirements.

If you're in the :45 to 1:00 range and want to compete with others in that group, you have to get to the race 1-2 hours early so you can plant yourself against the divider behind the seeded group. It's the only way not to get trapped in the throng at the start. The last time I ran it, I was leaning on the divider separating the two groups, and within an arms reach there was an older gentleman with a cane and a mother with a stroller (with a child in it and another child shorter than the stroller standing next to it). :shock:
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#23 Post by North Shore » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:44 pm

Try a different race? Lots of 10ks out there..
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#24 Post by New_PIC » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:15 pm

Just trying to get back into running here. I didn't start until my mid-40s, and managed my first marathon at about 50. I was getting into triathlon around then too. I eventually got a 5k just under 22 minutes and did 10k in 47 min. My best 1/2 ironman distance tri was 5 hours and 25 min. but I had problems during both of the full ironman triathlons I've done so those times weren't as good. Then life got in the way and I let the fitness slide for a few years.

Starting back too hard, I hurt my foot and now I'm rebuilding again but slower. I'm currently up to 3 or 4 5k runs per week, not fast though, and swimming lots so it's time to start getting a longer run in there again sometimes. My road bike has been neglected too and the trainer needs to get dusted off this winter as well. It's a bit tougher now with an extra 25 or 30 lbs over my ironman weight but I'm a bigger guy and hide it well. I still get called skinny but I can sure feel the extra lbs. Here's hoping the bike will help burn it back down again.
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Re: Runners/Joggers

#25 Post by North Shore » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:13 pm

Did my first Oly Tri this fall. Not really any specific training during the summer, so I was sorta going on 'good looks'. The bike/run transition was brutal, so I'll be practicing those for next year, and a bit more open-water swimming practice, and I'll be back for another.
Id love to build it up to a full Iron for my 50th year, but that's an awful lot of time and gear for a sport that I'm not 100% about...

Carry on!
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