60 years is nothing. Had a lesson last year from a 93 year old former WWII B-17 pilot in his Ercoupe down in LaPorte, Texas. He was shot down in Italy and spent the last 6 months of the war in a Stalag Luft camp(his second bailout). He wrote a book about it. And he is still actively flying. And this year.....flew with him again in his Legend Cub. Nice airplanes, cool guy, great wife. They hang out at the airport 6 days a week and also sell aircraft parts. He is in good health and has a sharp memory. Only his hearing is going.
Navajo lands on the street in yyc
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Last edited by pelmet on Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Jack Klumpus
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
I learned how to fly an Airbus in the factory. Does that make me anymore special?
When I retire, I’ll miss the clowns, not the circus.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
In case it wasn't posted earlier....
"C-FCWW, a Piper PA-31-350 aircraft operated by Super T Aviation Academy, was conducting a flight from Medicine Hat, AB (CYXH) to Calgary Intl, AB (CYYC) with 2 pilots and 4 passengers on board. After being cleared for the visual approach to Runway 35L at CYYC, the flight crew observed that the right fuel boost pump light had illuminated. The pilot requested a runway change to 35R and, a few minutes later, both engines (Avco Lycoming (L)TIO-540-J2BD) lost enough power that the pilot was unable to make the runway. A forced landing was conducted onto 36th Street NE, 2.8 nautical miles South of the threshold of Runway 35R. Shortly after touchdown just South of 16th Ave NE (Trans-Canada Highway), the outer right wing struck a pole and severed about 4 feet of wing. The left propeller struck some concrete structures, curling the outer portion of the three propeller blades. When the aircraft came to a complete stop, the first officer assisted the passengers in evacuating the aircraft. There were no injuries to the occupants or persons on the ground. The ELT did not activate."
"C-FCWW, a Piper PA-31-350 aircraft operated by Super T Aviation Academy, was conducting a flight from Medicine Hat, AB (CYXH) to Calgary Intl, AB (CYYC) with 2 pilots and 4 passengers on board. After being cleared for the visual approach to Runway 35L at CYYC, the flight crew observed that the right fuel boost pump light had illuminated. The pilot requested a runway change to 35R and, a few minutes later, both engines (Avco Lycoming (L)TIO-540-J2BD) lost enough power that the pilot was unable to make the runway. A forced landing was conducted onto 36th Street NE, 2.8 nautical miles South of the threshold of Runway 35R. Shortly after touchdown just South of 16th Ave NE (Trans-Canada Highway), the outer right wing struck a pole and severed about 4 feet of wing. The left propeller struck some concrete structures, curling the outer portion of the three propeller blades. When the aircraft came to a complete stop, the first officer assisted the passengers in evacuating the aircraft. There were no injuries to the occupants or persons on the ground. The ELT did not activate."
- confusedalot
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Sketchy information to say the least.
Are we to assume that this was fuel starvation or fuel contamination?
Did a good 5000 hours or more in light piston twins, the worst that happened was a throttle cable failure which led to one engine shutdown leading to single engine operations, which is easily manageable and no dramas. Happened once, and that is all.
Are we to assume that this was fuel starvation or fuel contamination?
Did a good 5000 hours or more in light piston twins, the worst that happened was a throttle cable failure which led to one engine shutdown leading to single engine operations, which is easily manageable and no dramas. Happened once, and that is all.
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Actually, it would be better described as factual information.
Why not wait till the investigators do their work instead of assuming on insufficient facts to make a determination?confusedalot wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 9:13 pm Are we to assume that this was fuel starvation or fuel contamination?
Going for the deck at corner
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
From Merriam's dictionary:AuxBatOn wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 5:15 amActually, it would be better described as factual information.
Why not wait till the investigators do their work instead of assuming on insufficient facts to make a determination?confusedalot wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 9:13 pm Are we to assume that this was fuel starvation or fuel contamination?
sketchy = wanting in completeness, clearness, or substance
ergo, insufficient facts = sketchy.
You're saying the same thing.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
I've got a few hundred hours on Navajos, but don't remember why a fuel pump (switch I assume) would illuminate? Is it saying "Turn me on"?
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
- confusedalot
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Thank you. That is all I am trying to convey. Far removed from the piston twin world after many decades, and I have substantial navajo time, but I am still interested in how this sort of thing could happen, especially since this sort of situation never even came close to happening to me. Too curious I suppose.upnatem wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 8:35 amFrom Merriam's dictionary:AuxBatOn wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 5:15 amActually, it would be better described as factual information.
Why not wait till the investigators do their work instead of assuming on insufficient facts to make a determination?confusedalot wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 9:13 pm Are we to assume that this was fuel starvation or fuel contamination?
sketchy = wanting in completeness, clearness, or substance
ergo, insufficient facts = sketchy.
You're saying the same thing.
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Yes for sure this was a very interesting accident and maybe eventually the cause will be known.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Fuel starvation will illuminate the fuel pump inop light. They may have forgotten to switch to inboard tanks for landing or ran out altogether.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
In future I think this incident should be called; "The miracle on 36th street".
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
It may be a bit early to call it a miracle because we don't know why the flight ended up landing on 36th. st. instead of the runway at the airport.
Anyone have any idea why it takes so long for the government to figure out why these accidents happen, or is it really not important for us to know.
Anyone have any idea why it takes so long for the government to figure out why these accidents happen, or is it really not important for us to know.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
I’ll take a stab at that. Maybe it’s because they care about getting it right, and like every other government department there are too few staff for too many tasks.C.W.E. wrote: ↑Sat May 26, 2018 1:23 pm It may be a bit early to call it a miracle because we don't know why the flight ended up landing on 36th. st. instead of the runway at the airport.
Anyone have any idea why it takes so long for the government to figure out why these accidents happen, or is it really not important for us to know.
Just a guess.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Far removed from the piston twin world after many decades, and I have substantial navajo time, but I am still interested in how this sort of thing could happen, especially since this sort of situation never even came close to happening to me. Too curious I suppose.
Here is what we know so far confusedalot.
After being cleared for the visual approach to Runway 35L at CYYC, the flight crew observed that the right fuel boost pump light had illuminated. The pilot requested a runway change to 35R and, a few minutes later, both engines (Avco Lycoming (L)TIO-540-J2BD) lost enough power that the pilot was unable to make the runway. A forced landing was conducted onto 36th Street NE, 2.8 nautical miles South of the threshold of Runway 35R.
It appears the right fuel boost pump illuminated and then both engines lost enough power to cause a " hard landing " on 36th street.
Also we should not be to curious about these things because the authorities will in all good time explain this to us, so lets try and be good little children and not be to inquisitive.
It is comforting to know they are going to make sure the weather did not contribute to this accident, hopefully that should not take to long to determine.Mike Adam, an investigator with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, said it's too early to speculate on a cause for the emergency landing.
"We will be collecting data, we'll conduct witness interviews, we'll examine and photograph the wreckage," he said.
"We'll also examine the maintenance history, meteorological conditions, operation of the equipment, operation policies, and regulation requirements."
Last edited by C.W.E. on Sat May 26, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- confusedalot
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Thanks,
Decades of separation and my little brain being filled up with other details of flying machines that in a perfect world I would rather not have to do, has put me into the brain dump mode for the sole purpose of making room for other airplanes.
So.........with my very limited recollection of the navajo, and I mean very limited, an electric fuel boost pump light means one of two things. The pump is not on, or the pump is not getting any feed. That wold rule out contaminated fuel since the light does not differentiate between any sort of liquid.
As I recall, the engines still run even if the boost pumps are not in the on position. The mechanical engine mounted pump can easily draw liquid from the tanks on their own.
I shall not jump to a very obvious conclusion, let the tsb types sort it out.
Decades of separation and my little brain being filled up with other details of flying machines that in a perfect world I would rather not have to do, has put me into the brain dump mode for the sole purpose of making room for other airplanes.
So.........with my very limited recollection of the navajo, and I mean very limited, an electric fuel boost pump light means one of two things. The pump is not on, or the pump is not getting any feed. That wold rule out contaminated fuel since the light does not differentiate between any sort of liquid.
As I recall, the engines still run even if the boost pumps are not in the on position. The mechanical engine mounted pump can easily draw liquid from the tanks on their own.
I shall not jump to a very obvious conclusion, let the tsb types sort it out.
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Like you it has been some time since I flew a Navajo, maybe the engine driven fuel pump failed and when the boost pump didn't work either?As I recall, the engines still run even if the boost pumps are not in the on position. The mechanical engine mounted pump can easily draw liquid from the tanks on their own.
Then both engines lost power? It sure looks like both the engines have feathered props.
It has only been a month since this happened so we will just have to wait a bit longer and maybe they will be able to figure out what caused it.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
To give them the benefit of the doubt, they might have intentionally feathered both engines before landing. I understand they have photo radar on that street, so you know, they might have wanted to slow down quickly and not get a ticket.
As to the TSB. Sometimes they do not get all the facts initially, and it takes them a bit of time to go through everything. Particularily if it was a mechanical issue, or they were led to believe it was a mechanical issue.
I understand that the young generation wants and expects to get answers...right now.....
But I do expect we will eventually get all the facts. In the meantime we can all just feel a bit less safe knowing that there may be a valuable lesson that can be learned here. I know I am....maybe all the navajo pilots out there should file an SMS with their companies demanding the answers or advising they just don’t feel safe flying until they know. It is just that important to know.
As to the TSB. Sometimes they do not get all the facts initially, and it takes them a bit of time to go through everything. Particularily if it was a mechanical issue, or they were led to believe it was a mechanical issue.
I understand that the young generation wants and expects to get answers...right now.....
But I do expect we will eventually get all the facts. In the meantime we can all just feel a bit less safe knowing that there may be a valuable lesson that can be learned here. I know I am....maybe all the navajo pilots out there should file an SMS with their companies demanding the answers or advising they just don’t feel safe flying until they know. It is just that important to know.
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Just on this fuel pump light thing. Coming back to me now. Don't they light up when they are on, like switched on, as you would for landing?
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
Dad,C.W.E. wrote: ↑Sat May 26, 2018 6:52 pmLike you it has been some time since I flew a Navajo, maybe the engine driven fuel pump failed and when the boost pump didn't work either?As I recall, the engines still run even if the boost pumps are not in the on position. The mechanical engine mounted pump can easily draw liquid from the tanks on their own.
Then both engines lost power? It sure looks like both the engines have feathered props.
It has only been a month since this happened so we will just have to wait a bit longer and maybe they will be able to figure out what caused it.
For somebody with a Greek licence and five hundred decades of aviation experience some days you do come across as a bit thick.
Didn't you already apologize for your hasty comments regarding this incident? Now you're at it again?
Your issues with everybody and everything are well understood at this point.
According to you TC is incompetent, TSB is incompetent, Merlin is incompetent, and airline pilots are incompetent. I think we got it...
Instead of bitching and moaning about how incompetent the regulators are in Canada why don't you present your findings into this incident?
Since you have such an issue with the timeliness of the root cause of this incident why don't you walk us through what this investigation should look like and give us an acceptable timeline to expect an official and accurate conclusion to this incident.
Or just tell me you have a Greek licence to demonstrate my inferiority. Again.
Or change your username and state you will never post here again. Again.
I look forward to you findings.
As always,
Your prodigal son.
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc
You really seem upset telex because I find it pathetic that it takes the Canadian authorities so long to determine what caused an accident as serious as this one.
Then maybe you and I have different thoughts on accidents that puts the paying public at high risk of injury or death.
By the way I do not have a Greek license it is EASA.
Then maybe you and I have different thoughts on accidents that puts the paying public at high risk of injury or death.
By the way I do not have a Greek license it is EASA.