Amik Caravan

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A321
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Amik Caravan

Post by A321 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:17 pm

Screen Shot 2019-03-04 at 9.11.39 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-03-04 at 9.11.39 PM.png (508.02 KiB) Viewed 4188 times
Amik Caravan near Little Grand this afternoon. Details still sketchy but CBC reported 9 including pilot survived the ice landing... (with or without power?)
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BearForceOne
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by BearForceOne » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:57 pm

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C-GGGQ
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by C-GGGQ » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:00 pm

Ouch. Looks like my pics of the islander crash up north back in 08. Nose gear dug in on landing and buckled. Glad everyone's ok.
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lownslow
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by lownslow » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:15 am

A321 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:17 pm
(with or without power?)
That doesn't look like a propeller blade that was producing power when it stopped, but I'm not the TSB.
Image
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by PilotDAR » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:10 am

It looks to me like the pilot did a good job of getting it on the surface, when the visual cues would have been pretty poor in such an open area with no texture on the unbroken snow - that'd be a glassy water landing. If power off, extra challenging! In the first photo, the prop does look like it might be feathered. I'd say good job of a forced landing, in circumstances probably more difficult than initially apparent.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:41 pm

Oh yes, great job. VFR with little or no visual clues. All the way to a loss of situational awareness, onto a frozen lake. That prop doesn’t look feathered. Another pilot unaware of the one hundred and eighty degree turn.
Cheers
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Redneck_pilot86 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 pm

Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:04 pm

It is interesting that these accidents are fairly common.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by lownslow » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:39 pm

Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 pm
Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.
I don't know how close to the edge of the lake that van touched down, but it should go farther in the glide with the flaps up. You know, if it was a forced approach and not forced into gentle CFIT by a low ceiling/poor vis/desire to stay 'VFR.'
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:41 pm

OH, I think that if a Caravan had had an engine failure in Manitoba on a flight planned route, we'd all know about it? There'd have been a MAYDAY call. There'd have been a cadors published. Nobody would be hiding it. They'd be screaming it from the roof tops. Nope. This Caravan pushed VMC, lost visual and ended up lucky to be alive.
There's a lesson here that everybody ignores time and time again. Don't push the weather. TURN AROUND
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:44 pm

lownslow wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:39 pm
Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 pm
Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.
I don't know how close to the edge of the lake that van touched down, but it should go farther in the glide with the flaps up. You know, if it was a forced approach and not forced into gentle CFIT by a low ceiling/poor vis/desire to stay 'VFR.'
You've never flown a Caravan, have you.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by The Hammer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:08 pm

Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 pm
Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.
Flaps in the caravan are electric. They could have easily been raised afterwards to get them out of the way while unloading etc
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pelmet
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by pelmet » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:19 pm

"C-FAFV, a Cessna 208B aircraft operated by Amik Aviation, was conducting a VFR flight from
Winnipeg/St. Andrews (CYAV), MB to Little Grand Rapids (CZGR), MB with 1 pilot and 6
passengers on board. During the final approach for Runway 36 at CZGR, the aircraft collided with
the frozen surface of Family Lake, approximately 0.75 nautical mile south of the threshold of
Runway 36. The pilot and passengers egressed the aircraft, and were transported to the Little
Grand Rapids nursing station for evaluation. The pilot suffered minor injuries. The aircraft
sustained substantial damage."
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by C.W.E. » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:47 pm

For sure they were more fortunate than that Air Tindi crew a few months ago.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:50 pm

pelmet wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:19 pm
"C-FAFV, a Cessna 208B aircraft operated by Amik Aviation, was conducting a VFR flight from
Winnipeg/St. Andrews (CYAV), MB to Little Grand Rapids (CZGR), MB with 1 pilot and 6
passengers on board. During the final approach for Runway 36 at CZGR, the aircraft collided with
the frozen surface of Family Lake, approximately 0.75 nautical mile south of the threshold of
Runway 36. The pilot and passengers egressed the aircraft, and were transported to the Little
Grand Rapids nursing station for evaluation. The pilot suffered minor injuries. The aircraft
sustained substantial damage."
Only way to do this is to lose sight of the runway and continue the descent.
Thanks for that.
They're lucky folks.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Donald » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:46 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:47 pm
For sure they were more fortunate than that Air Tindi crew a few months ago.
I think you'll find that is apples to oranges.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Redneck_pilot86 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:59 am

lownslow wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:39 pm
Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 pm
Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.
I don't know how close to the edge of the lake that van touched down, but it should go farther in the glide with the flaps up. You know, if it was a forced approach and not forced into gentle CFIT by a low ceiling/poor vis/desire to stay 'VFR.'
Sure, flaps should stay up until the desired landing area is attained, but then be lowered to reduce the ground speed as much as possible. *if* this was a forced approach. The only plausible reason I could see for leaving the flaps retracted is if you are covered in ice - which doesn't appear to be the case but it could have melted. Alternatively, maybe the pilot simply forgot the flaps and stalled? The caravan will drop out of the sky around 80 knots, well above the 63 kt stall speed.
The Hammer wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:08 pm
Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:22 pm
Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.
Flaps in the caravan are electric. They could have easily been raised afterwards to get them out of the way while unloading etc
The flaps are not in the way of anything while unloading, even in the attitude this one is in.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by lownslow » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:12 am

Illya Kuryakin wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:44 pm
You've never flown a Caravan, have you.
No Van time here but I stayed at a Holiday Inn, does that count for something? The point is moot now anyways because we know it wasn't a forced approach, but I know flaps generally shorten glide distance and I'm not convinced Cessna could get an exemption on the laws of physics.
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by seven-oh-nooo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:21 am

lownslow wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:12 am
No Van time here
The C208 AFM recommends but does not demand the use of full flap on a forced landing. In my mind that makes it pilot's discretion based on circumstances.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by co-joe » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:13 am

C.W.E. wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:47 pm
For sure they were more fortunate than that Air Tindi crew a few months ago.
And the Sowind Bandit crew/ pax over 20 years ago at the same airport.
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2112
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by 2112 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:36 pm

AFAIK Amik and Sowind share the same management.
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by bobcaygeon » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:56 am

2112 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:36 pm
AFAIK Amik and Sowind share the same management.
There's been more than a couple of aircraft bounce off the ice on Family lake on the approach to 36 in ZGR in the winter.

That prop really doesn't look like it was producing power. Even Pratt's mangle the prop when they hit something abruptly
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:03 am

2112 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:36 pm
AFAIK Amik and Sowind share the same management.
Exactly what "management" would that be?
Git 'er done....
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by 703doge » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:02 am

VFR into IMC, and subsequently CFIT...

http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r ... c0016.html

Bork!
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Re: Amik Caravan

Post by EPR » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:57 pm

Umm yahh kids...be sure to lower full flap prior to impact...and be ready for the huge change in control forces due to the rapid loss of airspeed when you flare with the full flaps and no thrust!
Practice full flap dead stick landings to an actual landing at your local airstrip!
If you don't understand the importance of this sort of training, then you have no business flying a single engine aircraft with passengers!
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