Float plane crashes off B.C. with up to four on board

[flyinthebug]

A terrible loss, but with interesting timing. This may punctuate the newspaper series being printed about BC floatplane operations.


http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... sh-100530/

OFD

Banned from taking a water taxi because they were too INTOXICATED...BUT, its ok to put them on a 4 seat seaplane? Yup, that makes sense. Are you kidding me????? What a shame.

On a side note.. I agreed to fly an intoxicated passenger ONCE...only because he had a security escort from the prison he had just been released from. When he grabbed the yoke, and myself and the officer in the back had to struggle with him for almost 45 secs to regain control of my ship... that was the LAST time for me.

[flying_dutchman]

Does anyone on here know the registration of the accident aircraft?

[Finn47]

According to CADORS 2010P0657 (just published)

The aircraft is reported to be the Atleo River Air Service Cessna A185F (C-GIYQ)

[Widow]

[The Old Fogducker]

Well done Kirsten. Keep the story out in front of people and don't give up.

Its surprising how little things have changed since I flew the coast almost 35 years ago.

The Old Fogducker
...the name came from my days flying floats on the coast

[Invertago]

Global news quoted John Baird as saying he's had enough and is promising to make the float industry safer.

I'm crossing my fingers, but he is after all a politician so we'll see what happens when the media moves on.

[The Old Fogducker]

Oh ho hummm .. here comes a big round of Inspectors checking floatplane C of R's at the dock to put a series of checkmarks in boxes on a Contact Inspection sheet.

The Minister gets to stand in Parliament and tell the Speaker of The House that "Enforcement has been stepped up" .... and everyone goes away happy for another decade of the same old same old.

Forgive my open cynacism, but as soon as they start actually doing things like actively monitoring the transportation system by riding along on airplanes during skeds and charters, checking weather, passing minmum enroute altitude regs and enforcing them ... or whatever the heck they do, there will be such a hew and cry from operators, and pilots that Transport will back of to avoid the contoversy, and answering letters of complaint.

Just wait til the first guy gets tagged for an overload, or charged with being negligent after trying to land a 185 in 5 foot swells, busting off a set of floats, and this board will go absolutely nuts with people calling TC Inspectors Nazi SS Members better suited to searching for members of the resistance hiding in attics to avoid being sent to a concentration camp. "Oh, he was a great guy, just trying to get the job done ... like any of us would" or any one of a thousand reasons to not change a thing.

I will watch with great interest, because something actually needs to be done, not just be seen to be done.

The Old Fogducker

[c_172pilot]

CTV pointed out that the pax where too intoxicated to take the water taxi so they took the sea plane, what the heck are 3 drunks doing on a sea plane in the first place! They never should have been allowed on board! I wonder if this fact will be researched further. 3 people who are drunk have almost a 0% chance of getting out of a submerged sea plane. They should investigate why three drunks where permitted on board in the first place.

On the news they made the comment that the back seat passengers had their seat belts undone so it was likely that they survived the crash and where likely trapped inside the airplane. Statements like that are very misleading; it is also very likely that they didn’t have them on in the first place. I know lots of passengers would take theirs off so they could chat with the passenger in the front seat, especially if they didn’t have head sets all around.

As far as industry making changes it all begins with the consumer. What if tomorrow everyone said we will no longer fly in beavers until they replace the passenger door handle with one that is more geared towards safety? I imagine that the industry would be forced to make some changes. Companies like Viking, Sealand and Kenmore will not build doors that come off easier and door handles that are easier to use because the cost of developing, testing and obtaining the STC are huge. These costs are then passed on to the seaplane companies who look at the cost of optional upgrades and pass because it will not bring in a profit. The passengers who fly don’t care if you have the safest equipment, the best maintained aircraft or the best trained pilots. They care about one thing, the bottom dollar. Why fly with company X when company Y is $15 cheaper? Until the consumer demands a higher standard in seaplane travel thru the government industry will not change.

What needs to happen is TC needs to grow a pair (or legislated a pair) and start protecting the public who pay their salaries. They need to start making policies that make sense and doing more than an occasional ramp check or auditing paperwork. Kristen has done admirable work towards this goal how ever the industry needs to get on board too. The seaplane industry has become a race to the bottom. Profit margins are so slim that any expense above and beyond what is legally required for safety is money that the companies don’t have. The only way things will ever change is if the laws are changed but that is going to take a lot more noise from us and the consumer! But OFD is correct the industry will never change, there is too much of the whole "if I aint broke don’t fix it" mentality amongst pilots, seaplane operators and passengers alike.

[turbo-prop]

The Canadian Press

Date: Tuesday Jun. 1, 2010 6:42 AM ET

TOFINO, B.C. — The federal transport minister ordered a review into float plane safety on Monday, two days after a crash off British Columbia left four people dead.

The announcement comes after years of reports that have repeatedly recommended changes to improve safety for people riding in the small float planes -- recommendations the federal government has so far failed to implement.

"I think it's clear we don't need any more studies," Transport Minister John Baird said in a news release.

Baird said he has ordered his staff to conduct a review into improving the safety on float planes, including reviewing design standards.

He said officials will also examine ways to improve escape from a submerged float plane, such as the operation of emergency exits, pop-out windows, life vests and training for commercial crews.

In addition, Baird said he also told his staff to create a float plane safety awareness campaign beginning in June, and strengthen investigation and enforcement for operators found to be violating existing rules.

Saturday's float plane crash involved a Cessna 185 on a short trip to Ahousat from nearby Tofino.

Witnesses said the plane nose-dived several kilometres from shore. On Monday, federal investigators raised the badly damaged plane from the ocean floor.

The cause of the crash isn't known, and it's not clear how the passengers and pilot died. Police have confirmed they were all still in the plane's cabin when they were found, but it wasn't known whether the passengers were strapped into their seatbelts.

Another crash last November at Saturna Island, located just east of Vancouver Island, left six people dead, including a six-month-old infant. None of the victims were wearing life jackets, and all of their bodies were found inside the plane.

The Transportation Safety Board has said drowning is the cause of death in 60 to 70 per cent of all fatal float-plane crashes, and the recommendations following accidents often focus on helping passengers escape submerged aircraft.

For example, a 2006 review ordered by the federal government recommended life vests be worn and doors left unlocked during takeoff and landing, and that there be a way to ensure that cargo and baggage doesn't interfere with people scrambling to get out of the plane.

A TSB report in 1994 made the same recommendation about life vests.

However, Transport Canada has resisted adopting such recommendations.

Bill Yearwood of the Transportation Safety Board said that anything done to improve chances of people getting out of a submerged plane "is a step in the right direction."

Meanwhile, investigators have started examining the wreckage from Saturday's crash.

"It's a badly broken up aircraft and there's a lot of work to be done to sort out what damage came first, what angle the aircraft struck the water at to cause that damage," said Yearwood.

His three-person team has started inspecting the wreckage to determine if the damage supports witness reports that the plane suddenly careened nose-first into the water, about three-quarters of the way through the six-minute journey from Tofino to the remote village. Ahousat can only be reached by sea or air.

The team was also handed underwater photos and video taken by a team of RCMP divers, who on Sunday retrieved the bodies of siblings Katrina Sam, 22, and Edward (Hunter) Sam, 28, their cousin Samantha Mattersdorfer, 24, and Tofino-based pilot Damon York, 33.

"My concern right now is to try and get information that may perish. As we move the aircraft we need to check everything that could be damaged in the move, so that's what we're doing right now," Yearwood said, explaining the plane will then be shipped to Richmond for further analysis.

The B.C. Coroner's Service is investigating. Island Regional Coroner Lyn Blenkinsop said they haven't yet received word from the hospital about when autopsies and toxicology studies will begin, and it will then take six to 12 weeks to get results.

All three passengers were young parents, and well-known in the community.

John Caton, who runs Clayoquot Wilderness Resort in Tofino where the two siblings worked, said the trio were heading back home after a shopping trip.

"They were two young great First Nations kids this should have never happened to," he said, adding he was on his way to the village to bring food to the family. "They were hard-working.... It's a tragic thing."

Scott Fraser, MLA for the Alberni-Pacific Rim region that includes Ahousat, said he'd met all the victims and had flown himself in the very plane that crashed.

"In Ahousat, everybody knew these young people and they're going to be dearly missed," he said. "They're a community that's going to be grieving for a while and my heart goes out to them."

Fraser said he'll want to hear any recommendations from the TSB report, adding that he's heard there may have been "an issue" around exiting the plane.

[HS-748 2A]

On the news they made the comment that the back seat passengers had their seat belts undone so it was likely that they survived the crash and where likely trapped inside the airplane. Statements like that are very misleading; it is also very likely that they didn’t have them on in the first place. I know lots of passengers would take theirs off so they could chat with the passenger in the front seat, especially if they didn’t have head sets all around.

Exactly - What crosses my minds here is, what are the odds that these drunk passengers were jacking around and caused the whole thing?

On this note:

As far as industry making changes it all begins with the consumer. What if tomorrow everyone said we will no longer fly in beavers until they replace the passenger door handle with one that is more geared towards safety? I imagine that the industry would be forced to make some changes. Companies like Viking, Sealand and Kenmore will not build doors that come off easier and door handles that are easier to use because the cost of developing, testing and obtaining the STC are huge.

The consumer is not going to change. Everybody wants their 8 minute McFlight to the liquor store in Toffino to be as bargain-basement as possible.

After all, when the passengers are sober, you're in competition with the ferry.

It's not always just the Big-Bad-Corporate-All-For-Profit operators that are the bad guys, standing in the way of safety.

Maybe Transport should remove a few layers of red tape and make the process for STC approvals less expensive??? There's a whacky idea.

The ass-covering beurocrats that drown us daily in paperwork serve almost entirely as an obstacle too.

They've also sucked what modest profitability that there was out of the business.

So there might be a place to start as we look to point fingers.

Slash some of the mind-numbing beurocracy and make these STCs affordable.

Beyond that, we've got to keep airplanes from 'nose-diving' into the water...

That is probably the more important concern.

'48

[Bushav8er]

Sorry for the loss.

I've always said that flying is more than hands and feet - pilot judgment / decision making is also a major key to safety.

The one area of focus should be; was the company mentality such that the pilots 'feel' forced to accept flights?

[Sulako]

First of all, my condolences to the friends and family of the victims - truly awful news. I hope that the cause can be quickly identified and steps taken so that it doesn't happen again.

As a sidepoint: I flew intoxicated pax once, and I'd never do it again. They got into a fight in the back seats of the Baron I was flying - blood everywhere. I told them I was gonna call the RCMP on the radio to greet them on landing, which calmed them down for the few minutes it took to land the plane at our destination. Once I landed, the scrap started up again, and as they were deplaning, the lady pushed one guy off the wing and he fell and ripped the flap off the actuator arm so it was hanging down on the flap rails. I called my boss and he told me to fly the plane home, and that the flap would "probably tuck itself up back into position" once I got going fast enough. I declined, and he told me I could sleep in the plane overnight. I did, and that's how I spent my birthday in 1997. Oh, and I made $2.70 for the flight (two percent of the $135 we charged for the 15 minute flight).

I remember another guy who flew an intoxicated bunch of baseball players from point A to point B and got punched in the face when he asked the guys to stop wrestling in the aisle. Oh wait, that was me too, the difference was they didn't start drinking until after the gear was up, but they managed to get completely loaded and unruly during the 45 minute flight.

It seems to me that drunk pax pretty much = violence, which can easily escalate to life-or-death in a small plane. I'm not saying that was the cause here, obviously we don't have all the details yet, but it's certainly something to think about for pilots who might not have been in that situation before - for your own safety, let the pax sleep it off before agreeing to do the trip.

[Ogee]

Global news quoted John Baird as saying he's had enough and is promising to make the float industry safer.

I'm crossing my fingers, but he is after all a politician so we'll see what happens when the media moves on.

I'm all for making the float industry safer, but the truth is this accident has nothing to do with the aircraft being a float plane or with egress issues. It appears that it went straight down nose first into the water and the force of the impact was such that all on board likely died on impact. Neither of these things happened because it was a float plane and it appears that the same thing could have happened to a 185 on wheels.

Certainly the presence of intoxicated passengers comes into the possible cause mix, approach stall, blown flap, but nothing float plane specific.

But if it leads to action, however late and however stupid it makes Baird look for connecting it to float plane specific problems, its some good that can come from this awful event.

You are a credit to your husband's memory, Kirsten.

[Tuk U]

748 has it right, finally a bit of common sense on this OLD topic. the somber fact is there are certain aspects of our business you can't fix by regulating or by arm chair flying, I'm sorry for your loss, but going in, we are all aware of the risks and it is up to the individual in the left seat to be as aware and prepared as possible, if I swing that prop and go... the minute I make that decision the rest is on my shoulders, it's not the owner or the ops.manager or the badly designed doors or the life jackets or whatever you wish to blame, the crap maintenance, when you have a car with crap tires do you drive it in ice conditions in the same manner as dry roads. I guarantee you Ottawa is not going to fix your concerns.

[CpnCrunch]

I called my boss and he told me to fly the plane home, and that the flap would "probably tuck itself up back into position" once I got going fast enough. I declined, and he told me I could sleep in the plane overnight.

Good call!

It seems to me that drunk pax pretty much = violence, which can easily escalate to life-or-death in a small plane. I'm not saying that was the cause here, obviously we don't have all the details yet, but it's certainly something to think about for pilots who might not have been in that situation before - for your own safety, let the pax sleep it off before agreeing to do the trip.

It is also, of course, illegal to carry drunk passengers:

Alcohol or Drugs - Passengers

602.04 (4) Subject to subsection (5), no operator of an aircraft shall allow a person to board the aircraft, where there are reasonable grounds to believe that the person's faculties are impaired by alcohol or a drug to an extent that may present a hazard to the aircraft or to persons on board the aircraft.

(5) The operator of an aircraft may allow a person whose faculties are impaired by a drug to board an aircraft, where the drug was administered in accordance with a medical authorization and the person is under the supervision of an attendant.

[bushwhacker]

Yeah Right,

If the Whitey pilot or dispatcher refuses to fly the intoxicated native passengers he then becomes a racist .

Wake up Canada. Its time to call a spade a spade.

[habs]

"Its time to call a spade a spade"

[Tuk U]

let me think alive and called a racist, and of course if alive one would be able to defend such comment only a dull shovel head could find humor in.... OR a dead racist and have the likes of some on this site, revealing their own low self esteem. by blaming the people who were DRUNK...get it they were DRUNK how many good decisions have you made whilst drunk, was the pilot DRUNK??? No you say....yeah blame the people who were drunk.

[ragbagflyer]

Speaking of drunks.....

let me think alive and called a racist, and of course if alive one would be able to defend such comment only a dull shovel head could find humor in.... OR a dead racist and have the likes of some on this site, revealing their own low self esteem. by blaming the people who were DRUNK...get it they were DRUNK how many good decisions have you made whilst drunk, was the pilot DRUNK??? No you say....yeah blame the people who were drunk.

[Widow]

Global news quoted John Baird as saying he's had enough and is promising to make the float industry safer.

I'm crossing my fingers, but he is after all a politician so we'll see what happens when the media moves on.

<snip>

But if it leads to action, however late and however stupid it makes Baird look for connecting it to float plane specific problems, its some good that can come from this awful event.

So very, very true.

Thank you Ogee, and all of you who understand why I keep trying - whether you agree with me or not.

[Tuk U]

At least I'm a dry drunk

[tempo]

Because of that am out of a job........! (not allowing a pasenger compromised)

So widow has a point!
The issue I feel not with the pilots but the operators!!!!

Transport Canada, can only do so much!!!!!!
I knew Damien and can say he was a great guy!!!
So sad!
My condolences to all................

[CpnCrunch]

Because of that am out of a job........! (not allowing a pasenger compromised)

So widow has a point!
The issue I feel not with the pilots but the operators!!!!

Transport Canada, can only do so much!!!!!!
I knew Damien and can say he was a great guy!!!
So sad!
My condolences to all................

In that case, the solution is maybe to get together with your fellow pilots and agree with each other that you will not be pressured into breaking the rules by your shady boss. Or, just report him to TC and find a better job.

[flyingsafely]

From the Westcoaster.ca published today:

Atleo Air Owner Speaks About Crash Investigation, Reaction From Community

Published Date: 2010/6/2 10:52:18
Article ID : 7873
Version 1.00
By Keven Drews

TOFINO — Within 36 hours of a crash that claimed the lives of a float-plane pilot and his three passengers, the small community of Ahousat was rallying behind the victims’ families. More than 300 people turned out Sunday night to the Thunderbird Hall in Ahousat to support the families and coworkers of pilot Damon York, 33, Katrina English (Sam), 22, Edward Sam, 28 and Samantha Mattersdorfer, 24. The four died Saturday afternoon when the Atleo River Air Service Cessna 185 they were in crashed into the ocean near Ahousat. “That’s just how the community pulls together,” said Jason Bertin, owner of Atleo River Air Service. “It was very emotional for everybody.”
Attending the event were York’s father and mother, sister, partner Rima Mara, and co-workers, family members and friends of English, Sam and Mattersdorfer, as well as hereditary chiefs and elected council members. Band members fed the guests salmon, pasta and a variety of other dishes and gave speeches.
At one point, said Bertin, hereditary chiefs placed traditional native blankets on the family members of those lost in the crash. “Time was at a standstill,” added Misty Lawson, also of Atleo River Air Service.
Bertin said he left with one message: take care, walk slow and keep your children as close to you as you can.

Back in Tofino, meantime, community members began decorating the pilot’s Toyota 4Runner, which was parked on Main Street, with flowers. The events were brief bright spots in a weekend dominated by tragedy. Saturday’s crash took place just after noon – only minutes after the plane took off for Ahousat from Tofino on an approximately six-minute flight. Emergency officials have reported the plane nose dived into the water. By 1:30 p.m., said Bertin, Transportation Safety Board officials were talking to Atleo Air.

Bertin said investigators know the engine was running at power. He said they also found the control and surface cables still intact. The company recently put in new cables and replaced the top end of the engine, said Bertin.

“They did come up with some alcohol on board,” he added. Just how much, Bertin doesn’t know.
“What is reported is two bags, and what was in those they don’t know.” Running rampant around town now are rumors alcohol somehow played a role in the accident, and Bertin said people are beginning “to paint an ugly picture.” “We hear the same rumours about the alcohol as everybody else has,” he added. “It’s important to focus on all the factors. “We don’t want people to run wild with this alcohol thing. If it’s the case, it may come out.” What’s important, he said, is finding a cause of the accident.

Meantime, Bertin and Lawson spoke highly of York’s worth ethic. Bertin said he hired York about four years ago as a mechanic and called him a talented aircraft engineer. Lawson said he was extremely smart and could “fix and solve problems like nobody we’ve ever known.” “Damon was a good, safe pilot,” she said. “He knew what he was doing and he was cautious.”
“He was a big part of Atleo Air.”

Remains of the plane are currently at the TSB in Richmond. “It’s been horrible,” said Bertin, when asked to describe the last few days. “There’s been moments when I can’t describe it without stumbling with description. “I just can’t believe it happened. You try to sleep and you just don’t know if you’re dreaming or awake.”

A memorial service will take place Friday at 3 p.m. in Tofino at the Royal Legion, 331 Main St.

A Facebook page has also been set up for York. Visit it at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1 ... 7821099..1

[pelmet]

I think it may have been discussed on another thread but this will close out this one...

http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/a ... 0p0147.asp

Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
1.It is likely that passenger interference caused the pilot to lose control of the aircraft whereupon it descended in a steep nose-down attitude until it struck the water.
2.It is possible the passengers' level of intoxication contributed to their inability to recognize the gravity of the situation and stop the interference in time for the pilot to regain control of the aircraft before impact.
3.Because there was no locking mechanism on the pilot's seatback, and because the pilot was not wearing his shoulder strap, he would have been unable to prevent his upper body from being forced onto the instrument panel.

Findings as to Risk
1.When controls are accessible to passengers there is a risk of inadvertent control manipulation and a risk of the pilot losing control of the aircraft.
2.When upper body restraint systems are not used there is a risk of serious head injury in the event of an accident.
3.When cargo or passengers' baggage is not restrained, there is a risk of unsecured items injuring persons on board in the event of sudden aircraft stoppage or encounters with severe turbulence.

Other Finding
1.Post-impact survival issues such as egress and flotation were not relevant in this accident.