Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Very sad.....
My condolences to the family.
My condolences to the family.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
As the father of 3 young lads myself, my heart aches for this pilots' children... so close to Christmas too. I know my boys would be devastated if I failed to come home. Let's be careful out there folks. At the very least, we need to do our safest work for those who depend on us at home.
My sincerest condolences to the Lockhart folks, families and especially the kids.
My sincerest condolences to the Lockhart folks, families and especially the kids.
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toelessjoe
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Stevens Funeral Home in Dryden will be handling the funeral for MP. They apparently just found out themselves, so no specific arrangements have been made. When they have everything in order announcements will be posted on ckdr.net. Their number is 807 223-6601.
Once again my deepest condolences to all involved.
Once again my deepest condolences to all involved.
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Valkyrie_XB70
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories ... ?id=223712
’Amazing pilot‘ lost in air crash
BRYAN MEADOWS
11/11/2009
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The Dryden pilot of a twin-engine charter plane that crashed Friday north of Sioux Lookout was a veteran of 25 years flying experience and “an amazing pilot.”
“Mike (Pateman) was a valued employee and an amazing pilot,” Lockhart Air Services spokeswoman Danielle Flynn told The Chronicle-Journal Tuesday.
Pateman and two passengers Ronald Ombash and Dean Meekis, both of the Cat Lake First Nation, perished when the Lockhart Air-owned Cessna 310R hit the trees and broke apart about 22 kilometres south of the remote community.
The wreckage of the plane was spotted Sunday by Canadian Forces Search and Rescue. The aircraft had been reported missing by the airline Friday shortly after it took off at 6 p.m. from the Sioux Lookout airport en route to Cat Lake.
Flynn, a co-owner of the Sioux Lookout-based charter airline, said she couldn‘t comment on “anything beyond” what police had released on the incident.
Danielle and Derrick Flynn purchased Lockhart Air Services three years ago. The charter airline has been in business for more than 20 years.
A newspaper source said that Pateman started flying with Lockhart Air about six months ago, but had more than 25 years experience flying various types of aircraft.
Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Hildebrand said that flying conditions at the time were “suitable for” the aircraft.
“There was some broken cloud with visibility up to 15 miles,” he said.
Hildebrand said he was awaiting an update on the Cessna‘s condition from three TSB investigators who arrived at the crash scene late Monday.
The “last hit” on the radar, he said, shows the plane travelling at about 4,500 feet, 80 km north of Sioux Lookout, and about half-way to its destination.
The aircraft remained unaccounted for until about 7:45 p.m. Sunday when military search and rescue located the wreckage.
The two passengers and pilot were found in the wreckage, provincial police said Monday. Police have not released the victims‘ names.
OPP Sgt. Shelley Garr said the six-seater plane‘s wings had ripped off with the impact into the densely wooded area.
The only access to the site is by helicopter.
Russell Wesley, who co-ordinated the band‘s search for the plane, said witnesses say the pilot aborted a landing at Cat Lake airport Friday night.
He said Meekis, formerly of Deer Lake, and Ombash ran Cat Lake‘s youth programs and were well respected.
Their deaths are a great loss for the community and grief counselling has been made available to those who want it, Wesley added.
The TSB is working with the coroner‘s office in the investigation into the cause of the crash, along with the OPP and Nishnawbe Aski Police Service.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Michael Pateman
Posted by Carol on Thursday, November 12th, 2009 at 8:13:11 AM
In loving memory of Michael Pateman, age 50 years, who died November 7th while following his passion as a pilot.
Michael Pateman is survived by his wife Lynne, his children Chelsea, Mitchell and Jayne, his parents Maria and Raymond Pateman, sister Marg Langlais, as well as other relatives.
A Memorial Funeral Service to celebrate the life of Michael Pateman will be held Saturday, November 14th at 11:00 a.m. in First United Church with Alice Bloomfield officiating. Interment will take place at a later date.
Visitation will be held Friday from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. in the Moffat Chapel of the Stevens Funeral Home.
In lieu of flowers donations to the Oxdrift Volunteer Fire Department may be made through the Stevens Funeral Home, P.O. Box 412, Dryden P8N 2Z1. Condolences may be emailed to: sympathycard@shaw.ca subject Pateman
http://ckdr.net/inmemoriam/index.php
Posted by Carol on Thursday, November 12th, 2009 at 8:13:11 AM
In loving memory of Michael Pateman, age 50 years, who died November 7th while following his passion as a pilot.
Michael Pateman is survived by his wife Lynne, his children Chelsea, Mitchell and Jayne, his parents Maria and Raymond Pateman, sister Marg Langlais, as well as other relatives.
A Memorial Funeral Service to celebrate the life of Michael Pateman will be held Saturday, November 14th at 11:00 a.m. in First United Church with Alice Bloomfield officiating. Interment will take place at a later date.
Visitation will be held Friday from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. in the Moffat Chapel of the Stevens Funeral Home.
In lieu of flowers donations to the Oxdrift Volunteer Fire Department may be made through the Stevens Funeral Home, P.O. Box 412, Dryden P8N 2Z1. Condolences may be emailed to: sympathycard@shaw.ca subject Pateman
http://ckdr.net/inmemoriam/index.php
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
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iflyforpie
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Very sad...
My condolences to the next of kin and friends...
My condolences to the next of kin and friends...
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
cpl_atc wrote:Was it IJF or FIT?
Unfortunately, it looks like the aircraft involved was FIT......
Sincerest sympathies.......
confidentiality is everything........
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Conquest Driver
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
I was involved in the comm search on Friday night. The ident was FIT, for sure. Condolences to the familys and friends.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
always sad to hear about such things. so sorry for the families involved.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Ok I am trying to sort this out from a mental model point of view. Had this one "missed" at cat lake and headed south again or was it in an enroute descent when things went bad etc. whats the word.
Howard
Howard
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Thoughts to the families/friends involved 
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
check your pm Howard.......howard40 wrote:Ok I am trying to sort this out from a mental model point of view. Had this one "missed" at cat lake and headed south again or was it in an enroute descent when things went bad etc. whats the word.
Howard
confidentiality is everything........
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
My sincere sympathies to all that share this loss.
H
H
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Is there a bank account for the kids xmas fund yet ?
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
thanks Rank 10 for your considerate enquiry. I'll check in with Mike's wife if there is anything in place for the kids, but I don't think there is. It's been really comforting all the support from the pilot community. Thanks again to everyone.
kevin
kevin
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Incorrectly set altimeter.
http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/a ... 9c0172.asp
Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
1.The aircraft’s altimeters were likely set incorrectly, resulting in a higher reading that led the pilot to descend below a safe altitude.
2.While manoeuvring for the approach to Runway 11 at Cat Lake, the aircraft descended and collided with trees on rising terrain.
Finding as to Risk
1.Manoeuvring at night away from visual cues may result in a sudden loss of visual reference, thereby increasing the risk of collision with the ground.
Other Finding
1.The aircraft would have been operated at a lower altitude throughout the flight, risking a potential conflict with other en route traffic or terrain.
http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/a ... 9c0172.asp
Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
1.The aircraft’s altimeters were likely set incorrectly, resulting in a higher reading that led the pilot to descend below a safe altitude.
2.While manoeuvring for the approach to Runway 11 at Cat Lake, the aircraft descended and collided with trees on rising terrain.
Finding as to Risk
1.Manoeuvring at night away from visual cues may result in a sudden loss of visual reference, thereby increasing the risk of collision with the ground.
Other Finding
1.The aircraft would have been operated at a lower altitude throughout the flight, risking a potential conflict with other en route traffic or terrain.
Last edited by pelmet on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
pelmet wrote:Incorrectly set altimeter.
http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/a ... 9o0159.asp
Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors
1.The aircraft’s altimeters were likely set incorrectly, resulting in a higher reading that led the pilot to descend below a safe altitude.
2.While manoeuvring for the approach to Runway 11 at Cat Lake, the aircraft descended and collided with trees on rising terrain.
Finding as to Risk
1.Manoeuvring at night away from visual cues may result in a sudden loss of visual reference, thereby increasing the risk of collision with the ground.
Other Finding
1.The aircraft would have been operated at a lower altitude throughout the flight, risking a potential conflict with other en route traffic or terrain.
Edited. by me
Hard time believing it could be that simple.
Last edited by Doc on Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Seems like a reasonable conclusion based on the available evidence Doc.The aircraft was equipped with two barometric pressure altimeters. Both altimeters incorporated the three-pointer type of display. This display format has a higher potential for being misread, as compared to altimeters incorporating other types of displays, such as the drum-and-pointer type. 5 Nearly 12 full turns of the adjustment knob are required to effect a one-inch barometric pressure change in the altimeter setting. A one-inch decrease in barometric pressure results in an increase of indicated altitude of about 1000 feet if no adjustment is made. An adjustment of this magnitude is uncommon in day-to-day operations. New, larger, technologically advanced aircraft are increasingly being equipped with a drum‑and‑pointer type of altimeter system from the factory.
The aircraft’s last flight before the accident flight occurred on 05 November 2009. The altimeter setting at Sioux Lookout at the conclusion of that flight was 30.13 inches. The altimeter setting for Sioux Lookout at the start of the accident flight was 29.44.
...
The right altimeter subscale was set to 30.40 inches, which was approximately one inch higher than the prevailing altimeter setting of approximately 29.41 inches. The Lockhart Air Services SOPs require pilots to set and cross-check both altimeters, so the left altimeter was likely set to 30.40 inches as well. Because it requires many turns of the setting knob to achieve a one-inch change in the setting, it is likely that the pilot set the fractional subscale to 0.40, thereby setting the barometric pressure of both altimeters approximately one inch too high. Setting the
altimeters one inch too high would cause them to read approximately 1000 feet higher than the aircraft’s actual altitude, and the pilot would be led to believe that he was about 1000 feet higher than he actually was.
The link in pelmet's post is wrong, here's the correct link:
http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/a ... 9c0172.asp
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
[/quote]
Hard time believing it could be that simple.[/quote]
Agreed.
Hard time believing it could be that simple.[/quote]
Agreed.
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Probably there are a thousand folks on here that have at least once, set an altimiter in a cessna wrong and taken off(probably in vfr conditions, uncontrolled airspace), by setting the altimeter to "field elevation." Having an altimeter setting from a nearby source on paper (say a metar) is a better way to start.Then you wont just swing it the "short way" to (the wrong?)field elevation on the needles.
be careful out there.
be careful out there.
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LousyFisherman
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Why would the source of the altimeter setting make a pilot "more likely" to set the altimeter incorrectly?howard40 wrote:Probably there are a thousand folks on here that have at least once, set an altimiter in a cessna wrong and taken off(probably in vfr conditions, uncontrolled airspace), by setting the altimeter to "field elevation." Having an altimeter setting from a nearby source on paper (say a metar) is a better way to start.Then you wont just swing it the "short way" to (the wrong?)field elevation on the needles.
be careful out there.
Personally I would use the field elevation before I would use a 2 hour old METAR.
Over 30% of my takeoffs are from fields with no communication services at all. What do I do then?
Use the elevation from my GPS?
I always use field elevation for takeoff, and then if I can receive an ATIS transmission at a higher altitude I will reset the altimeter in the air.
If anyone can provide a more accurate way to ensure I have the correct altimeter setting I am willing to listen.
YMMV
LF
Women and planes have alot in common
Both are expensive, loud, and noisy.
However, when handled properly both respond well and provide great pleasure
Both are expensive, loud, and noisy.
However, when handled properly both respond well and provide great pleasure
Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
I was not trying to indicate the metar source is better, but that using it as an approx will help us fallable humans from making another error.
If your altimeter reads say 1600 ft and you are at a 700 ft asl aerodrome, humans are quite likely to turn it 100 ft to correct it and takeoff with it set wrong. If you write down the alt setting from the metar, it will make you turn the little knob 10 times to get it back to 700 ft. It will rarely change 1000 ft in an hour or so, the plane in this crash had not moved for a few days and the altimeter setting had a spectacular change in setting. We are both correct that setting it wrong for whatever reason can have dire consequences, moreso in ifr operations. We humans need all the help we can to get it right! having an idea of the local setting will add another possible way to prevent this happening. I will continue to write it down from the metar to help me get started.
I know of a friend who has made the 1000 ft error. Ask the radar guys how often it happens, and they correct some hapless, saturday morning flyer that gets it wrong by exactly 1000 ft.
cheers
respectfully
If your altimeter reads say 1600 ft and you are at a 700 ft asl aerodrome, humans are quite likely to turn it 100 ft to correct it and takeoff with it set wrong. If you write down the alt setting from the metar, it will make you turn the little knob 10 times to get it back to 700 ft. It will rarely change 1000 ft in an hour or so, the plane in this crash had not moved for a few days and the altimeter setting had a spectacular change in setting. We are both correct that setting it wrong for whatever reason can have dire consequences, moreso in ifr operations. We humans need all the help we can to get it right! having an idea of the local setting will add another possible way to prevent this happening. I will continue to write it down from the metar to help me get started.
I know of a friend who has made the 1000 ft error. Ask the radar guys how often it happens, and they correct some hapless, saturday morning flyer that gets it wrong by exactly 1000 ft.
cheers
respectfully
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Jastapilot
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Re: Lockhart Air aircraft missing enroute from YXL to YAC
Completely believable! Or do you have some kind of conspiracy you'd prefer to believe? Let's face it, Doc, people die every day for some of the most seemingly minor or stupid mistakes, in all walks of life.Doc wrote:Hard time believing it could be that simple.
I was in Yellowknife when a PC12 nearly went nose to nose with a Canadian North 737 due to the PC12 pilot forgetting to set 2992 above 18000'. I think they had a vertical separation of 200' and that was it.
A single pilot operation has no backup pilot to show you you've made a simple mistake. Lucky for most of us there's a pilot sitting beside us who catches it before we go and do something stupid.



