Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

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Liquid Charlie
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Liquid Charlie »

Little interesting side note -- Jazz has cat3 authority (qualified crews) and the approaches are hand flown - no autopilot -- with the HUD -- again -- get rid of the band-aids and make carriers and airports upgrade the hardware -- why is there so much anti-progressive thinking in Canadian aviation -- the "that's the way we have always done it" attitude -- I'm an old fuker but still I see that I have more progressive thinking than many of the "younger generation" -- I smell a rat and maybe it's how and what they are learning from the "good old boys" network that is stunting their growth -- not many progressively thinking airlines out there -- I guess people fall into compliance without questioning and drink the cool aid -- example -- how can we fix issues like fatigue if the new generation won't believe it's an issue
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by rxl »

All Jazz CRJs and Qs are equipped with HUDs - hence no PMAs on these types.
The HUD is a great tool. With it and properly equipped runways, hand flown CAT II and CAT III approaches are a piece of cake.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Cat Driver »

ahh, so they use HUD to Cat 111 in the CR's and Q's.

That is an all together different issue....

Back to the subject accident.....they did not have HUD did they?

They were not flying an approved Cat111 approach were they?
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by rxl »

Jazz Classic Dashes (100 and 300 series) do not have HUDs.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Funny how, when something is "new and improved" it's called NG, and what came before, suddenly become "classic"? Guess it's not as demeaning as "clapped out" or "POS", or just "the old ones"?
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Canoehead »

It's interesting how some posters already know what happened on Feb 24. May as well lock this thread up.

As an aside, a "HUD" alone does not permit Cat2/3 ops in the RJ or Q400. It's the installation of an "HGS" that permits them in our case. They are not the same things.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Cat Driver »

It's interesting how some posters already know what happened on Feb 24. May as well lock this thread up.
The information below is incorrect?

Flight 7795, inbound from Toronto Pearson International Airport last Tuesday, was preparing to land at about 6:30 p.m. A sudden snow squall caused the two-person flight crew on the Dash 8 to lose “all visibility,” said Don Enns, manager of Transportation Safety Board's Ontario regional office.

“It went from fairly decent visibility to zero in (a) very short period of time,” Enns told The Sault Star.

The crew was considering trying another approach when the aircraft “touched down short of the runway.”

The nose of the airplane hit a lead-in light.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Canoehead wrote:It's interesting how some posters already know what happened on Feb 24. May as well lock this thread up.
gs.
So, they didn't land short of the runway and land on a lead in light short of the runway because they couldn't see the runway, ignored that pesky little fact, and planted her anyway? This didn't happen. Oh my. We bad.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Canoehead »

As you were...
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Johnny#5 »

Haha, this thread has got the old folks all fired up.....
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Johnny#5 wrote:Haha, this thread has got the old folks all fired up.....
The "old folks" tend to SEE a runway they land on.....I haven't missed a runway yet.....neither has Cat. What's your point? LOL.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Cat Driver »

The clue is his reference to " Old folks " Illya.

When Johnnie gets old enough to get a pilots license his brain may have developed a bit more.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Clodhopper »

Professional pilots completely losing situational awareness and landing off-runway should be a serious concern to all in aviation in Canada. The fact that people seem to think we are over reacting is far more concerning to me.

On an ILS or any SCDA approach there should be zero discussion as to what to do at minimums. You either see it or you don't. This should not have happened.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Cat Driver »

Exactly clodhopper, and even more concerning is it happened in what should be Canadas top level carrier.
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

I'd like to know which McDonalds the crew has managed to find work at, so I can avoid it.
I don't know why this is being taken so lightly? This crew should be fired on the spot. And don't start the "you weren't there.."bull shit! Everybody on board that flight could have very well ended up at a funeral Their own!
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Johnny#5 »

:lol:
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by HiFlyChick »

Clodhopper wrote:...On an ILS or any SCDA approach there should be zero discussion as to what to do at minimums. You either see it or you don't. This should not have happened.
So true - all decisions as to what to do should be made on the ground. I can recall calling an overshoot and just as I pushed power the F/O called that she had the lights. I had a brief moment where my mind went "Should I...?" but it was quickly squashed by the thought of "We've started the overshoot - we go around!" It's comforting to have a single decision to make at a single time and then act on it with no second guessing yourself. I'm a big fan of "Here's the plan, no waffling, no maybe's..."
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by jet a1 »

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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by Cat Driver »

At least they'll have a "tell us a time" story for their upcoming AC interview.
Now, now, now you be careful or you will be A- hole number three on Avcanada. :mrgreen:
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Re: Jazz lands on lights in YAM?

Post by TSB Tasker »

Hello,

I am the TSB Investigator-in-Charge of this occurrence.

If anyone has any information they think would be valuable to the investigation, please feel free to email me directly at: ewan.tasker@tsb.gc.ca

I may not be able to respond directly to speculation or conjecture but I would certainly appreciate your input.

Take care,

Ewan Tasker.
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Last edited by TSB Tasker on Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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