Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

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Jack Klumpus
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Jack Klumpus » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:20 am

Not that this matters, but to the posters above that are insisting Germanwings only flies Airbus.


Engineering & fleet
The Germanwings/Eurowings fleet comprises Airbus A319, Airbus A320 and Airbus A330 aircraft as well as the Bombardier CRJ900 NextGen aircraft. The cutting-edge technology of our fleet is continuously kept up to date. We draw on the broad expertise of our own engineering arm and that of Lufthansa Technik to regularly maintain our fleet. Our ground crew receives ongoing training to meet the demands of aviation today.

Simple google search guys.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by 727driver » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:37 am

A recent technical bulletin was released by Airbus regarding uncommanded pitch over as a result of frozen or malfunction of the AOA indicator. By not turning of two of three ADIRS (air data computers) off even full stick back inputs would not recover control away from the Airbus. This is because the Airbus enters at stall protection mode to save itself. Rather ironic! It's one of those "what's it doing now" momements the Airbus is know for doing. This bulletin came out right after another departure from controlled flight occurred with a Luftansa a321. See link:

http://avherald.com/h?article=47d74074

Not playing sidewalk TSB investigator here but I'm sure this is definitely on the investigators radar. It's a good thing the media hasn't gotten a hold of this info otherwise they would pump this up so bad and scare the crap out of any passenger stepping on an Airbus for their next flight.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Driving Rain » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:42 am

It's a good thing the media hasn't gotten a hold of this info otherwise they would pump this up so bad and scare the crap out of any passenger stepping on an Airbus for their next flight.
Worries me and has me thinking twice.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Liquid Charlie » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:02 am

One question to the x-spirts -- is there a manual valve for the crew O2 on the 320 and if there is, is there a caution light if left in the closed position??
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Eric Janson » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:55 am

Liquid Charlie wrote:One question to the x-spirts -- is there a manual valve for the crew O2 on the 320 and if there is, is there a caution light if left in the closed position??
There is a push button on the left side of the overhead panel that is checked as part of the cockpit preparation. There are amber indications on the lower ECAM and if you test the O2 masks with the switch off you will get an ECAM message.

The bottle is located below the cockpit - schematic shows a manual shut off valve is present.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:06 am

Jack Klumpus wrote:Not that this matters, but to the posters above that are insisting Germanwings only flies Airbus.


Engineering & fleet
The Germanwings/Eurowings fleet comprises Airbus A319, Airbus A320 and Airbus A330 aircraft as well as the Bombardier CRJ900 NextGen aircraft. The cutting-edge technology of our fleet is continuously kept up to date. We draw on the broad expertise of our own engineering arm and that of Lufthansa Technik to regularly maintain our fleet. Our ground crew receives ongoing training to meet the demands of aviation today.

Simple google search guys.
Germanwings fleet
http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Germanwings

Eurowings fleet
http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Eurowings

Both owned by Lufthansa but they have different call signs, different ICAO and IATA identifiers, different Operating Certificates.

It's like stating that Air Canada and Westjet both operate Dash 8s.....
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Mig29 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:19 am

[quote="727driver"]A recent technical bulletin was released by Airbus regarding uncommanded pitch over as a result of frozen or malfunction of the AOA indicator. By not turning of two of three ADIRS (air data computers) off even full stick back inputs would not recover control away from the Airbus. This is because the Airbus enters at stall protection mode to save itself. Rather ironic! It's one of those "what's it doing now" momements the Airbus is know for doing. This bulletin came out right after another departure from controlled flight occurred with a Luftansa a321. See link:]

You are correct, it has been disseminated to all the A320 carriers and I would be sure that Germanwings got one too. The seriousness of this potential malfunction is real, and it has been incorporated in QRH as part of the red OEB's until Airbus updates it's ECAM procedures to be displayed on the EDs. The fact that the jet hasn't veered off course at all points more to the pressurization issues.....but it's only a guess for now.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:41 am

How about a big red guarded thumb operated button on the joystick labelled "DIRECT LAW" ?
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by bizjets101 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:35 am

BEA news conference states they have successfully downloaded CVR recordings.

No comment beyond that.

https://twitter.com/bizjet101/status/580547907830603776 photo of Global Express OE-INC which was taken by my friend/avgeek/aviator Maik Korolckzuk who was a passenger on board Germanwings yesterday. RIP Maik xx
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by cncpc » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:49 am

Driving Rain wrote:
It's a good thing the media hasn't gotten a hold of this info otherwise they would pump this up so bad and scare the crap out of any passenger stepping on an Airbus for their next flight.
Worries me and has me thinking twice.
It does explain the aircraft's behaviour. It doesn't explain the crew behaviour, no voice communication, no emergency squawk.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by goldeneagle » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:50 am

bizjets101 wrote:BEA news conference states they have successfully downloaded CVR recordings.

No comment beyond that.

Apparently the FDR case has been found, but not it's contents. Must have been one spectacular impact to have the FDR come apart and leave the box with no guts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html
Jouty says it was too early to draw conclusions from the recording. The case of the second black box, the flight data recorder, has been found, but not its contents, the French president said minutes earlier.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by fish4life » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:01 am

goldeneagle wrote:
bizjets101 wrote:BEA news conference states they have successfully downloaded CVR recordings.

No comment beyond that.

Apparently the FDR case has been found, but not it's contents. Must have been one spectacular impact to have the FDR come apart and leave the box with no guts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html
Jouty says it was too early to draw conclusions from the recording. The case of the second black box, the flight data recorder, has been found, but not its contents, the French president said minutes earlier.

Or the French built plane in France with French investigators "can't find it" until they pull data off and find out if it's going to look bad on Airbus or not first.

Just a little conspiracy theory on a Wednesday morning.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by xsbank » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:00 am

So, is there some nefarious electro glitch in Airbus' system that renders them unflyable? Air France in the Atlantic, two Airbuses in Asia and now one in Germany?

This is seemingly beyond a mere coincidence. I'm going to have to read Pprune now. Rats
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Mig29 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:33 am

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:How about a big red guarded thumb operated button on the joystick labelled "DIRECT LAW" ?
Gilles,

I don't think that would work, because if it's the issues with faulty sensors, which in turn screw up ADR's, the take over button won't over ride the computer which is thinking that the plane is stalling or over speeding. You can try to "take over" all you want, but the computer will over rule you. That's the Airbus' philosophy. But, if you turn off 2 out of 3 ADR's then the aircraft goes to DIRECT LAW, which gives the pilot the control (although the aircraft has no "protections").

Read today that a Germanwings pilot wrote somewhere online that their A320s had numerous "unplanned" descents last year due to press. problems.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by goldeneagle » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:40 am

fish4life wrote: Or the French built plane in France with French investigators "can't find it" until they pull data off and find out if it's going to look bad on
Did you see the photo of the mangled CVR ? I know there are lots of folks that love a good conspiracy, but those photos are pretty telling.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by cncpc » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:43 pm

Reports live on the Guardian say that French investigators say they have good audio off the CVR.

There seems to be some evidence a pressure loss was not the cause.

The aircraft was flying intact until impact.\

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... ght-4u9525
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Heliian » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:03 pm

^the wording is off in the article he was saying that it does not appear to be a "classic decompression situation" or explosion, saying the plane was intact when it went in. Msn's clickbait headline says "voices and alarms" on cvr, it just fails to mention when. Investigators said they heard good audio like voices and alarms not when or even if they were at the same time.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by bizjets101 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:04 pm

One pilot locked out of cockpit - pilot inside cockpit did not answer or open door .... yikes !!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world ... w-bna&_r=0
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by futboler14 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:45 pm

Oh boy, here we go... :|
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Axial Flow » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:03 pm

Always blame the pilot...seems like the odds are pretty good it's his fault. Too bad these Egypt Air 990, Mozambique Air, now German Wings guys...nobody just honourably kill themselves anymore...
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by sstaurus » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:21 pm

How can this be stopped? More psych evals for everyone? Get rid of the doors? There will just be more and more pressure to replace the pilots with computers :(
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:43 pm

How many people have died as a direct result of the 9/11 mandated "super doors"? Obviously, it's time to bring back the "cardboard" doors of yesterday? How much more proof, and deaths do we need???
There is no way to filter "depression" from the cockpit.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by jpilot77 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:53 pm

It also could have been an example of extremely unlucky pilot incapacitation. I've heard that in the US pilots are never alowed to be alone in the cockpit. When one goes out a flight attendant must stay in the cockpit till the pilot returns.
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by goldeneagle » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:54 pm

I have a question specifically for Airbus drivers. In normal cruise configuration, should a pilot end up leaning on the sidestick, pushing it forward, what will the aircraft do ? Thinking about a possible incapacitation scenario, ie slumped forward due to a heart attack or anurism or some such event. What would the aircraft do with normal cruise set on auto, but a sidestick pushed forward?

And like Ilya, my first thought when I read about a locked out pilot apparently trying to bust down the door to get back in, this is essentially a direct result of the 9/11 mandated secure doors. But begs another question from folks at various operations that fly with secure doors. Are there any protocols regarding what must be done when one of the flight crew leaves the cockpit at your company ? Ie, is there a requirement for somebody else to be in there, or is it acceptable for just one person to be left in the cockpit with the door closed and locked. Another dumb question along the same line, can the door be locked on the way out? Or does it require an action from inside to lock ?
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Re: Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

Post by whodareswins » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:15 pm

Our airline requires a flight attendant to replace the pilot when they leave the flight deck for the bathroom. This should be common place - surprising that it isn't.
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