Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

[cncpc]

A friend of mine flies in the US for a RJ operator and they require an FA to come in when you leave to take a dump. The new PF has to get the O2 mask ready just incase. Thats a little extreme, but you've got ten seconds, tops, maybe, of consciousness at that altitude.

Just in case what? The toilet door isn't sealed?

Try reading the last sentence of my post again.

Calm. Not a criticism of your post. Just a poor attempt at humor.

[FICU]

As the media focuses on the mental health of this pilot maybe it's time they were educated on the continued degradation of the compensation, benefits, and overall working conditions of airline pilots, particularly with the low cost carriers around the world. The ones that have wannabes pay for type ratings and training then get locked into long term contracts with poor pay, benefits, and working conditions.

Maybe the media should look at how much Lufthansa has forced concessions on it's pilots over the years and how low the bar is at Germanwings and other ULCCs and LCCs. Then they should look at the US and Canada as we follow along the same path.

Maybe they might pay more to fly if they knew the flight crews weren't working in such poor conditions of employment that are only getting worse.

[pilotbzh]

As the media focuses on the mental health of this pilot maybe it's time they were educated on the continued degradation of the compensation, benefits, and overall working conditions of airline pilots, particularly with the low cost carriers around the world. The ones that have wannabes pay for type ratings and training then get locked into long term contracts with poor pay, benefits, and working conditions.

Maybe the media should look at how much Lufthansa has forced concessions on it's pilots over the years and how low the bar is at Germanwings and other ULCCs and LCCs. Then they should look at the US and Canada as we follow along the same path.

Maybe they might pay more to fly if they knew the flight crews weren't working in such poor conditions of employment that are only getting worse.

Bang on...... living the dream for all the wanabees as long as you can pay you can be a pilot....

[sstaurus]

In the wake of this tragedy, a question comes to mind.

Going forward, how willing do you think a pilot who is truly suffering from some sort of depression or mental issue, will be to seek out treatment?

Indeed, how many are out there flying right now hiding issues?

Unrelated, but it's disgusting how many bad jokes I've heard from passengers and the public about this incident... Must resist urge... to use fist...

[Alberta_x51]

The data speaks volumes. Pilots report mental health problems at a fraction of the rest of the community.

That means a very large number of pilots do not get the help that they need when they need it and
another large group take themselves off work or they get told to take a few weeks off.

If a "stress" problem looks like it is going to last more than two weeks, the odds are that they will be terminated.
Once terminated, they will be unlikely to ever be rehired in the near future.

Companies don't want a disability claim so they would rather fire and hire than deal with any of the usual
life stresses that emotionally and or psychologically disable people of any gender in any occupation.

The medications or rather its the prescriptions that end up being a career destroyer. It's also dubious as to
how much help those magic happy pills will provide and for how long.

Medical professionals tend resolve problems by prescribing meds when the reality is the causal problems need to be
dealt with rather than address the effects.

I'd suggest that the airlines need to take a pro-active approach, provide expert counselors who will keep
all the counselling private and confidential. It's that personal counseling that often will help those suffering problems
to find light at the end of the tunnel and or realize that they have an obligation to either take a long leave to deal with the issues or, quit flying. It's that later choice that will appear impossible to many especially when you have no other qualifications or experience that can put food on the table.

Most of the population have very little understanding of mental health problems. Once a pilot sounds or looks a little stressed
he gets asked to take a week or two off. It's that kind of reaction that strikes terror and can cause more stress.

Stress is normal, its a normal reaction to abnormal situations and abnormal "stressors"

Most people can have some shocking news, a death in the family, a death of close friend, a relationship breakdown,
parential alienation, financial stress, all of which cause "sleep deprivation"

Sleep Deprivation is one of the more insidious and the most dangerous as it is cumulative, like building up a toxic level of
poisons until the smallest amount of the same toxin causes severe reactions that would have no reaction to the normal person,
if there is such a thing.

From a simple aviation perspective, there is an old poster for anti-depressants that Merk used to give to doctors,
"depression, you can see it in their eyes".

After you have had to watch a normal person change into someone who is severely depressed, their entire face changes and the most dramatic change is with the eyes.

More often than not, its not a persons, actions or reactions that will provide warnings as they may be consumate actors and hide it most of the time from most people. If you don't have the experience of recognizing those who suffer those problems then you are more likely not to notice anything.

To stay alive in aviation, psychology is key and often the most accurate way to spot problems is simple good eye contact.

[boeingboy]

Geez. I went through a bad break-up eleven years ago, and was pretty upset for a month.



These guys are reaching, trying to find anything that will support their hasty, initial assumption. This is BS reporting!

Now - I'm not one to hold any love for the media - but I have not seen a report anywhere with anyone saying this was a direct cause of the crash. So one could say they are reporting the facts.

Now if you look at the evidence that's on the CVR. There are not many conclusions to draw, except that it was a deliberate act. One can also conclude that there must be something very wrong with the individual responsible as no sane person would simply take 150 others with them. We have trouble enough believing, and dealing with the fact that there is something so wrong with those that voluntarily take there own life, but to take other innocent people with you is beyond what many of us could comprehend. This is what makes this case so hard - it's so shocking we just cant grasp the reality of it. The worst thing at all to do would be to ignore it.

The simple fact that this person has had mental issues in the past certainly makes it more likely that he could have been dealing with issues recently, and can make the CVR evidence slightly more understandable. It certainly doesn't make a court case that he was mentally unstable at the time of the event - but it does open doors of possibilities.

[cncpc]

Geez. I went through a bad break-up eleven years ago, and was pretty upset for a month.



These guys are reaching, trying to find anything that will support their hasty, initial assumption. This is BS reporting!

Now - I'm not one to hold any love for the media - but I have not seen a report anywhere with anyone saying this was a direct cause of the crash. So one could say they are reporting the facts.

Now if you look at the evidence that's on the CVR. There are not many conclusions to draw, except that it was a deliberate act. One can also conclude that there must be something very wrong with the individual responsible as no sane person would simply take 150 others with them. We have trouble enough believing, and dealing with the fact that there is something so wrong with those that voluntarily take there own life, but to take other innocent people with you is beyond what many of us could comprehend. This is what makes this case so hard - it's so shocking we just cant grasp the reality of it. The worst thing at all to do would be to ignore it.

The simple fact that this person has had mental issues in the past certainly makes it more likely that he could have been dealing with issues recently, and can make the CVR evidence slightly more understandable. It certainly doesn't make a court case that he was mentally unstable at the time of the event - but it does open doors of possibilities.

Yep, that sums it up.

[FICU]

If the flying public knew about the deteriorating health of the airline pilot profession, especially regarding regionals, LCCs and ULCCs they might understand why a pilot might go mental.

Maybe this guy was mental enough to send a message.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Have heard speak that he recently converted to Islam. Through a radical group. Would answer many questions? But don't these people like to take "credit" for their actions?
Illya

[FICU]

First I have heard of the Islam angle but here is more rumour...

The girl who was engaged with him for 5 months told the German media that the he told her: "One day I will do something that will change the whole system, and then all will know my name and remembered."

[floydfrank]

As the media focuses on the mental health of this pilot maybe it's time they were educated on the continued degradation of the compensation, benefits, and overall working conditions of airline pilots, particularly with the low cost carriers around the world. The ones that have wannabes pay for type ratings and training then get locked into long term contracts with poor pay, benefits, and working conditions.

Maybe the media should look at how much Lufthansa has forced concessions on it's pilots over the years and how low the bar is at Germanwings and other ULCCs and LCCs. Then they should look at the US and Canada as we follow along the same path.

Maybe they might pay more to fly if they knew the flight crews weren't working in such poor conditions of employment that are only getting worse.

Bang on...... living the dream for all the wanabees as long as you can pay you can be a pilot....

I was under the impression that the Colgan Air disaster in '09 was going to to be a big wake up call regarding pilot proficiency, or lack thereof, and poor pay and work conditions, especially with low cost carriers. Apparently, I was mistaken..

[pianokeys]

As the media focuses on the mental health of this pilot maybe it's time they were educated on the continued degradation of the compensation, benefits, and overall working conditions of airline pilots, particularly with the low cost carriers around the world. The ones that have wannabes pay for type ratings and training then get locked into long term contracts with poor pay, benefits, and working conditions.

Maybe the media should look at how much Lufthansa has forced concessions on it's pilots over the years and how low the bar is at Germanwings and other ULCCs and LCCs. Then they should look at the US and Canada as we follow along the same path.

Maybe they might pay more to fly if they knew the flight crews weren't working in such poor conditions of employment that are only getting worse.

Bang on...... living the dream for all the wanabees as long as you can pay you can be a pilot....

Me too, I thought that was going to be a game changer. Nope. All it did was create the 1500 hour rule. The same rule the airlines are now using as a red herring towards the "pilot shortage".


I was under the impression that the Colgan Air disaster in '09 was going to to be a big wake up call regarding pilot proficiency, or lack thereof, and poor pay and work conditions, especially with low cost carriers. Apparently, I was mistaken..

[FICU]

I was under the impression that the Colgan Air disaster in '09 was going to to be a big wake up call regarding pilot proficiency, or lack thereof, and poor pay and work conditions, especially with low cost carriers. Apparently, I was mistaken..

You' d think but not enough people were killed and not high profile enough. Of course the Airlines want this to be a crazy pilot and case closed.

[timel]

Me too, I thought that was going to be a game changer. Nope. All it did was create the 1500 hour rule. The same rule the airlines are now using as a red herring towards the "pilot shortage".

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/alpa-its- ... -raise-pay

Shortage of pilots is not real for now.
The rule has been there for like 1-2 years?

If RAA people don't make it attractive they will eventually pay the price. Airplanes grounded is not good and pilots don't make 1500 hours in 2 months.

Regional airlines, they are so stuck up in their old mentalities, got to give them some time.


I also think it is time Europeans to clean their backyard. What a mess over there.
But I am optimistic, some folks over there are putting a lot of energy and are using multiple resources to change the situation.

[cncpc]

Girlfriend says Lubitz wanted to do something "...to change the system" and that people would remember him by.

From the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... r-scrutiny

[FICU]

Quite the article! Easy guess as to what "system" he was referring to?

[floydfrank]

I was under the impression that the Colgan Air disaster in '09 was going to to be a big wake up call regarding pilot proficiency, or lack thereof, and poor pay and work conditions, especially with low cost carriers. Apparently, I was mistaken..

You' d think but not enough people were killed and not high profile enough. Of course the Airlines want this to be a crazy pilot and case closed.

eXactly! - the MSM has spoken, the narrative is set - it vas da crazy pilot - dammit!

[pelmet]

Also as Illya said, why the entire world fleet isn't grounded this morning to have the cockpit doors REMOVED, ill never know?

It's called "risk management". Risk management is everything aviation.

You honestly believe that locked cockpit doors haven't been a successful deterrent to hijacking and terrorist attacks since 9/11? If not why did the terrorists resort to shoe and underwear bombs? Because the doors were locked.

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Meanwhile, there have been over 500 deaths, due DIRECTLY to locked cockpit doors.
The 747 that crashed in Scotland, due to a bomb on board was well before the locked cockpit door era.
Your serve.
Illya

Think about it in this day and age based on the reality in the news. The idea that we should remove locked doors from airliners as if it would somehow prevent a pilot from crashing an airplane if he wanted to and yet the threat from terrorism is lower. You can't measure crimes that were prevented. Does anybody actually not realize this and truly believe that 500 deaths were caused directly by locked cockpit doors?

When I read the logic of posters like Ilya/Doc, I think to myself that if TC ever starts using forum posts to make a psychological evaluation, he will be grounded immediately along with a couple of other close associates on here as being analyzed as raving lunatics. And that is based on a long list of subjects posted about.

[flyinthebug]

You honestly believe that locked cockpit doors haven't been a successful deterrent to hijacking and terrorist attacks since 9/11? If not why did the terrorists resort to shoe and underwear bombs? Because the doors were locked.

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Meanwhile, there have been over 500 deaths, due DIRECTLY to locked cockpit doors.
The 747 that crashed in Scotland, due to a bomb on board was well before the locked cockpit door era.
Your serve.
Illya

Think about it in this day and age based on the reality in the news. Thinking that we should remove locked doors from airliners as if it would prevent a person from crashing an airplane if he wanted to and yet the threat from terrorism is less.

When I read the logic of posters like Ilya/Doc, I think to myself that if TC ever starts using forum posts to make a psychological evaluation, he will be grounded immediately along with a couple of other close associates on here as being analyzed as raving lunatics.

Hey Illya...you and Cat`s "crazy" idea about cabin doors needing to be removed (and my strong opinion as well) seems to have some rather good company. Philip Baum also believes these doors need to go!

Here is a quote by Baum, from the article posted in this thread at the bottom of page 7...

Others questioned the wisdom of sealing off the cockpit at all. “The kneejerk reaction to the events of 9/11 with the ill-thought reinforced cockpit door has had catastrophic consequences,” said Philip Baum, the London-based editor of the trade magazine Aviation Security International.


Along your line of thinking pelmet, Mr. Baum should be stripped of his many airline security credentials & thrown in the luny bin too.

At least we`ll have some like minded people there Illya.
Fly safe all.

[iflyforpie]

Be careful..... I think you have to be certifiable in order to be on this forum....