Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

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Diadem
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Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Diadem » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:11 pm

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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by bizjets101 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:12 pm

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CGAUS

C-GAUS Piper Saratoga SP PA-32R-301
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Posthumane » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:26 am

Sad, my condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.

If the flightaware track is accurate, it looks like they leveled off from a climb to 9300, then climbed to 10k before descending back to 9300, below msa for the sector, and hit the highest peak in the area. The wife said they were in cloud when it sounds like they got a terrain warning and attempted to turn. Is it possible to tell if they were filed IFR?
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:56 am

Here is the preliminary report, which says they were VFR and inadvertently entered cloud, and they crashed while turning around:

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviat ... 3558&key=1
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Rookie50 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:16 pm

Sad -- but one to learn from.

Three things jump out at me (as a rookie in the mountains -- so value appropriately)

1. Know where you are, and where the highest terrain is.
2. Know where the lowest terrain is, your escape route, and fly it especially if weather is suspect.
3. If in a valley, fly always on the downwind side, not in the center, giving max radius for a turn back, which if started on the downwind side, will be into wind and take less room.

None of the above are judgments for the causes of this accident, and my condolences for this tragedy.
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Redneck_pilot86 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:46 pm

Rookie50 wrote:Sad -- but one to learn from.

Three things jump out at me (as a rookie in the mountains -- so value appropriately)

1. Know where you are, and where the highest terrain is.
2. Know where the lowest terrain is, your escape route, and fly it especially if weather is suspect.
3. If in a valley, fly always on the downwind side, not in the center, giving max radius for a turn back, which if started on the downwind side, will be into wind and take less room.

None of the above are judgments for the causes of this accident, and my condolences for this tragedy.
I would argue with your point three, you should always be flying on the right hand side of a valley, to stay seperated from potential traffic coming the other way. If you are in a valley low enough that you are relying on the wind to make your turn radius small enough to work, you should have turned around long ago.
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:54 pm

You probably shouldn't be flying right underneath an overcast layer in the mountains unless you (a) know what you're doing (i.e. a lot of mountain flying experience) and (b) know the terrain.
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:33 pm

I tell my students to be sure they can judge how much room their aircraft needs to make a 180 deg turn at 30 degs of bank and at normal cruise speed. If they are flying in a valley they should immediately turn around if they feel any doubt about their ability to comfortably turn around using only 30 deg of bank and without slowing down.
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Rookie50 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:44 pm

Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Rookie50 wrote:Sad -- but one to learn from.

Three things jump out at me (as a rookie in the mountains -- so value appropriately)

1. Know where you are, and where the highest terrain is.
2. Know where the lowest terrain is, your escape route, and fly it especially if weather is suspect.
3. If in a valley, fly always on the downwind side, not in the center, giving max radius for a turn back, which if started on the downwind side, will be into wind and take less room.

None of the above are judgments for the causes of this accident, and my condolences for this tragedy.
I would argue with your point three, you should always be flying on the right hand side of a valley, to stay seperated from potential traffic coming the other way. If you are in a valley low enough that you are relying on the wind to make your turn radius small enough to work, you should have turned around long ago.
I respect this view ( and would be my plan too) -- though In strong winds -- which yes could be another whole discussion --- being on the downwind side gives one exposure to rising air (so I was taught)
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Rookie50 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:44 pm

Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Rookie50 wrote:Sad -- but one to learn from.

Three things jump out at me (as a rookie in the mountains -- so value appropriately)

1. Know where you are, and where the highest terrain is.
2. Know where the lowest terrain is, your escape route, and fly it especially if weather is suspect.
3. If in a valley, fly always on the downwind side, not in the center, giving max radius for a turn back, which if started on the downwind side, will be into wind and take less room.

None of the above are judgments for the causes of this accident, and my condolences for this tragedy.
I would argue with your point three, you should always be flying on the right hand side of a valley, to stay seperated from potential traffic coming the other way. If you are in a valley low enough that you are relying on the wind to make your turn radius small enough to work, you should have turned around long ago.
I respect this view ( and would be my plan too) -- though In strong winds -- which yes could be another whole discussion --- being on the downwind side gives one exposure to rising air (so I was taught)
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by Redneck_pilot86 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:30 pm

Rookie50 wrote:
Redneck_pilot86 wrote:
Rookie50 wrote:Sad -- but one to learn from.

Three things jump out at me (as a rookie in the mountains -- so value appropriately)

1. Know where you are, and where the highest terrain is.
2. Know where the lowest terrain is, your escape route, and fly it especially if weather is suspect.
3. If in a valley, fly always on the downwind side, not in the center, giving max radius for a turn back, which if started on the downwind side, will be into wind and take less room.

None of the above are judgments for the causes of this accident, and my condolences for this tragedy.
I would argue with your point three, you should always be flying on the right hand side of a valley, to stay seperated from potential traffic coming the other way. If you are in a valley low enough that you are relying on the wind to make your turn radius small enough to work, you should have turned around long ago.
I respect this view ( and would be my plan too) -- though In strong winds -- which yes could be another whole discussion --- being on the downwind side gives one exposure to rising air (so I was taught)
Flying on the downwind side can allow you take advantage of upgoing air, but this can hide the severity of the downgoing air on the windward side, which is what you are turning into when you make that 180 turn to get out of dodge. You shouldn't get to the point that you require the upgoing air and can't out perform the downgoing air on a day when you are forced to fly the valleys. Don't get me wrong, the incresed speed you get out of flying in teh up going air is great.
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Re: Alberta pilot dies in Montana crash, wife survives

Post by iflyforpie » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:32 am

I don't agree with that Redneck. I don't need to fly into turbulence to know the severity of it.. and I'm not going to put my aircraft into it to find out. I always fly on the sunny or windward side of the mountain because it gives me more assets to balance liabilities... I always just assume its going to be very bad on the lee side..

Turning may put you into turbulence.. but most valleys you can turn within half of them anyways with a rate one provided you've slowed up... and if you can't turn before valley bottom.. then you had better be sure you're going into wind vs with it.

Traffic is the least of my concerns.
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