Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

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cv990
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by cv990 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:36 pm

Have a few thousand hours (loooong time ago) in those machines. Very unforgiving in ice, almost no climb if they were at gross weight. I flew that corridor a few times that day (albeit in a Q400) and there were high winds aloft (80+kts@15000 which is lower alt than usual), although it wasn't all that bumpy. So a combination of icing conditions, steep rising terrain, and good windshear could conceivably make it a lousy day. I remember some days in the metro, if we knew it was gonna be bad, we would head over the water and climb out there till we got high enough before turning over the hills, just because of how lousy the bird was with ice.

Really sad day. I don't really know anyone there anymore, but it still hits close to home.....
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by iflyforpie » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:50 pm

There was a pretty big frontal wave/trowal moving through the area at the time...
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cv990
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by cv990 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:54 pm

Yep, was a lousy day. Pretty crappy right up to 250
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by cncpc » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:44 pm

The crew have been located, one in the wreckage and the other nearby.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/missing-cargo-plan ... -1.2326686
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by boeingboy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:47 pm

And this is exactly why I wont post my thoughts here......

From the above news link..
In a release, police said the plane’s fuselage had not been located, though aviation experts and enthusiasts posting on the avcanada.ca online forum say part of the fuselage can clearly be seen in CTV News video of the wreckage.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by goldeneagle » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:55 pm

boeingboy wrote:And this is exactly why I wont post my thoughts here......
ditto
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by cncpc » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:05 pm

Understandable of course.

I do think the posts on here have all been reasonable and contribute to a good discussion. So far.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by Rudder Bug » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:12 pm

Very sad outcome, my condolences to the families and friends.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by Prairie Chicken » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:30 pm

Very sad. My condolences to all involved.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by armchair » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:40 pm

That CTV and CBC may lurk here is not unexpected, but somewhat complimentary to the expertise found here. Anyway... anyone knows what CVR/FDR equipment this aircraft may have had? (medias were refering to black boxes not having been found yet, but I'm not sure if it had any to begin with).
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by CID » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:46 pm

And this is exactly why I wont post my thoughts here......
What's wrong with news media using AvCanada as a resource? They correctly identified people here as "enthusiasts" on an "online forum". They didn't call people here experts.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by PositiveRate27 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:49 pm

CVR's weren't functional when I worked there... I believe they had FDR's as well.

I read an article yesterday claiming the crew phoned ATC on a Cell phone reporting an electrical issue. perhaps they lost all gyro's and ended up in a spiral into the ground. It would explain the lack of Mayday call and transponder.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by 7ECA » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:50 pm

CID wrote:
And this is exactly why I wont post my thoughts here......
What's wrong with news media using AvCanada as a resource? They correctly identified people here as "enthusiasts" on an "online forum". They didn't call people here experts.
It is wrong, because as usual, the media is willing to report anything, as long as they are the first to do it. Hell, it could be complete and utter bull shit, but at least they got it on the air FIRST.

The news media, could at least have the common sense and decency, to wait, and only release information, and report on the facts that are disseminated to them from official sources - in this case the RCMP, TSB, Carson, etc.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by wordstwice » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:57 pm

Pilots bodies have been found.

Very sad indeed
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by co-joe » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:05 pm

I was really hoping for a DB Cooper type of end to the story. You know Metro full of the banks money, 2 poorly paid pilots, and a beach somewhere. Sorry for the bad news Av-family. My condolences.
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flyinthebug
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by flyinthebug » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:16 pm

Sad & Tragic. It seems we are saying that far too often this year already.

My sincere condolences to family and friends.

FTB
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by bigsky » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:20 pm

I am assuming these aircraft are pressurized. Is there a chance a door or window could have let loose..they were at about the right altitude where the pressurization would be starting to kick in.
Do they not have a large cargo door, if that let loose it would be pretty catastrophic.

Just a thought and nothing more.

RIP guys.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by boeingboy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:28 pm

I am assuming these aircraft are pressurized. Is there a chance a door or window could have let loose..they were at about the right altitude where the pressurization would be starting to kick in.
Do they not have a large cargo door, if that let loose it would be pretty catastrophic.
Pretty unlikely. Even if a window did let go - it is not catastrophic. It has happened before. At 8000' your diff is pretty darn low.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by Canoehead » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:33 pm

bigsky wrote:I am assuming these aircraft are pressurized. Is there a chance a door or window could have let loose..they were at about the right altitude where the pressurization would be starting to kick in.
Do they not have a large cargo door, if that let loose it would be pretty catastrophic.

Just a thought and nothing more.

RIP guys.
The pressurization begins from the ground in a pressurized airplane.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by bigsky » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:10 pm

Canoehead wrote:
bigsky wrote:I am assuming these aircraft are pressurized. Is there a chance a door or window could have let loose..they were at about the right altitude where the pressurization would be starting to kick in.
Do they not have a large cargo door, if that let loose it would be pretty catastrophic.

Just a thought and nothing more.

RIP guys.
The pressurization begins from the ground in a pressurized airplane.
I know that - I guess what I am saying is the differential pressure increases with altitude thus the likelihood of
something letting loose increases with altitude.

Anyway probably a non related issue..just thought maybe that big door came loose one way or the other.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by Krimson » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:20 pm

When that cargo door is closed, it is essentially part of the fuselage. Has the same structural integrity as any other area of the fuselage. Highly unlikely anything related to the cargo door.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by lostaviator » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:56 pm

Unless the internal cargo door handle was left in the socket. The metro has no safety mechanism to prevent the cargo door from opening in flight. If the handle was in (usually stored in a pouch next to door) and a box fell...

The phone call to ATC is an interesting development (if accurate). They probably would have been in cell reception at that altitude and distance from yvr.

The live ATC recording is quite chilling. And also went on for much longer than I expected given the short duration of their flight.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by GREMMIE » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:20 pm

My condolences to friends family and colleagues of the crew. Anybody who is willing to work ungodly hours loading thousands if pounds of bank bags into clapped out cargo pigs for the kind if wages available is doing so because they have a passion for flying, not because they aren't talented or intelligent enough to do something else with their lives. Maybe we can take some comfort knowing these two were doing what they loved. May they rest in peace.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by cncpc » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:20 pm

armchair wrote:That CTV and CBC may lurk here is not unexpected, but somewhat complimentary to the expertise found here. Anyway... anyone knows what CVR/FDR equipment this aircraft may have had? (medias were refering to black boxes not having been found yet, but I'm not sure if it had any to begin with).
In a roundabout way, CBC is here. Some CBC reporters call me about accidents in certain areas to get my take on what may have happened. Not this one. I highly doubt I'm the only one on here who the media call from time to time. The main guy who calls me is radio and radio is not well suited to detailed stories about accident speculation. Rarely it gets turfed to the television guys. I don't say this in a perjorative sense, but quite a few media people are thicker than bottled pig shite.

We forget that most of us know all of these things in detail. It's just our life. It isn't theirs, and sometimes it seems like the Pope writing about better sex.

I have tried to get better media coverage of these types of things, but real depth stuff is for the print media. I used to be a print journalist back in the day and did some stuff for the Vancouver Sun, but not any more.

Some journalists I know go to Bill Yearwood and they say he is very helpful. Just comes right out and says what is known. I know of a journalist who had the story on the NT Air accident before the TSB was going to release it. There was a very human factor to that and the journalist was asked to hold off until the official announcement, and he would be given first dibs. I think our TSB are as good as any in the world.

We have TSB guys "lurking" here as well. I can't see how that can be a bad thing.

I agree with armchair. Sure there are some crackers here, but there are a lot of guys who've been to the rodeo as well. We are discussing things from a knowledge base that has often been purchased with the lives of our colleagues and the experiences we have had that speak of making bad things turn out good. The CTV report did speak of enthusiasts, but before that it said this is a place where there are aviation experts. There genuinely are a lot of them here and I think we should be happy they are among us and the media points that out.

In the CTV thing, I think they originally had it that debris had been found but not the fuselage. Obviously that was not true and the headline was changed to say it was the cockpit that wasn't found. They got that from the Mounties, as their clip showed.

If I was a journalist again, I'd have no trouble identifying that as a very good source of understanding the issues involved in an accident like this. I wouldn't mistake it as the TSB, but still good information to know early on.
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Re: Overdue Cargo Airplane Bound for CYXS

Post by cdnpilot77 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:23 pm

CID wrote:
And this is exactly why I wont post my thoughts here......
What's wrong with news media using AvCanada as a resource? They correctly identified people here as "enthusiasts" on an "online forum". They didn't call people here experts.
Ah yes they did....
In a release, police said the plane’s fuselage had not been located, though aviation experts and enthusiasts posting on the avcanada.ca online forum say part of the fuselage can clearly be seen in CTV News video of the wreckage.
But that's just semantics at this point, very sad day...condolences to the families.
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