Wasaya caravan missing

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Firebird67
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Firebird67 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:32 am

This is a flash back to the air tindi crash a year ago, flew into icing could not make it back, pilot did not know he was on the ground until the gear ripped off...
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bobcaygeon
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by bobcaygeon » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:55 am

Now comes the interesting part. Relatively intact airplane, shit wx, hadn't been airborne long, no fuel at his destination, freighter, and it's Christmas rush........interesting to see how accurate the math was.
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TheFrankestFrank
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by TheFrankestFrank » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:17 pm

Destination was KB6, Wasaya has a fuel cache in YTL a mere 13 miles away and another in NM5 that would have been available as an option if low fuel was a concern. I was told the flight turned around due to the onset of airborne icing. The intention was to return to YPL, and the decision to return to YPL was made long before the aircraft got close to its planned destination.

I would also say Wasaya has no history of intentionally overloading caravans or running around thin on fuel, same goes for pushing weather. Don't know for certain whats been the norm in the last few years but my experience was there was no negative ramifications for holding or cancelling for weather, I would expect with the inclusion of ALPA in the mix it's still the same.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:40 pm

Have to agree with Frank on the fuel side of things. Don't recall having load issues. The WX side of things could lead to a debate though. Or, so say my sources.
Illya

Actually, come to think of it, I've never had any company hassle me about the fuel I carry.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:50 pm

bobcaygeon wrote:Now comes the interesting part. Relatively intact airplane, shit wx, hadn't been airborne long, no fuel at his destination, freighter, and it's Christmas rush........interesting to see how accurate the math was.
I don't think there would have been math issues. They never played that game. The fact Tarp Hill was the resting place speaks volumes. Tarp Hill has been the final resting place for others. Screams scud running. Which equals low ceilings, low vis. It's the only "high" spot for miles. Also, it might take icing out of the equation.
Illya
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Kingeddie2.0
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Kingeddie2.0 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:29 pm

I speculated tarp hill immediately , I've snuck by that monster many times in low weather . Standard item when new crews work out of YPL. Watch out for tarp hill it will catch you because it's flat as piss on a plate up there except one spot. Seems to be right in the way whenever you set up for a west bound landing at the airport . Not the first airplane on it hopefully the last .
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Gorgons
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Gorgons » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:02 pm

Anybody where is Bow Lake is located in relation to Tarp Hill?
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Antique Pilot
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Antique Pilot » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:45 pm

Gorgons wrote:Anybody where is Bow Lake is located in relation to Tarp Hill?
It has been a long time but IIRC Bow Lake would be about 10 miles NW of Tarp Lake. Tarp Hill would be halfway between Tarp Lake and Bow Lake. Any corrections to my memory are welcome.

AP
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vrrotate
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by vrrotate » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:18 pm

Here a snapshot of the VNC.
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anofly
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by anofly » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:40 pm

I am dreadfully sorry for the loss of a good young man.
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Rookie50
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Rookie50 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:58 pm

TheFrankestFrank wrote:Destination was KB6, Wasaya has a fuel cache in YTL a mere 13 miles away and another in NM5 that would have been available as an option if low fuel was a concern. I was told the flight turned around due to the onset of airborne icing. The intention was to return to YPL, and the decision to return to YPL was made long before the aircraft got close to its planned destination.

I would also say Wasaya has no history of intentionally overloading caravans or running around thin on fuel, same goes for pushing weather. Don't know for certain whats been the norm in the last few years but my experience was there was no negative ramifications for holding or cancelling for weather, I would expect with the inclusion of ALPA in the mix it's still the same.

Assuming the second paragraph is factual, (and this is the second or third comment stating the same) I'm curious why then the spotlight is instantly shined on this company in particular to the point advocating prosecution and trial, without any known facts that this was a company pressure issue.

My Condolences to the family.
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clear_blue
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by clear_blue » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:08 pm

Rest in peace Nick, I hardly knew you, but what I can remember from my college days is that you were an awesome person, well liked, and well respected.
To his family, take solace in knowing that he left us doing something he loved.

Since graduating from the Soo in 2009, he's the second member of his class to perish in an accident (recall the FO from the Bearskin crash a few years back outside of Pickle).
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springlocked
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by springlocked » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:19 am

operators that seem to be "VFR"
== maybe after they break cloud on the instrument approach -- sheesh - that statement is as silly as aircraft flying IMC at +500' -- little thread drift here --

This unfortunate accident is pointing to one main outcome - VFR flight in IMC resulting in CFIT with icing likely just one of several factors. The cause, as with most accidents, is initiated by human factors. So simple but so complicated once the chain of events are initiated.

One could understand to a certain level these types of accidents happening back in the day when there was no wx reporting and the only known wx was when you when flying, but back then on skis and floats with a sleeping bag, with the option to land safely and set up a camp. This day and age no such luxury but there is wx reporting in enough stations to get a pretty good idea with what is out there.

Stay safe
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GCA
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by GCA » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:52 am

RIP. Not to be blunt, climb climb climb.
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Gorgons
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Gorgons » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:21 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... 4081?assss

Not sure why earlier reports called this an intact aircraft and why anybody thought it had landed on a lake? RIP, tragic
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bizjets101
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by bizjets101 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:39 am

Photos were posted on TSB Flickr page - rather than post photos - here is link -

TSB Flickr
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GyvAir
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by GyvAir » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:54 am

Gorgons wrote:Not sure why earlier reports called this an intact aircraft and why anybody thought it had landed on a lake? RIP, tragic
I noticed that the preliminary reports in the french language media used wording that better fit the truth of the situation.

Condolences to all affected.
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nottellin
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by nottellin » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:15 pm

GCA wrote:RIP. Not to be blunt, climb climb climb.
If he picked up icing he wouldn't be able to climb as that is the problem with the van especially with a full load, this is very sad and i have been in very similar situations early on in my career but based on luck/environmental factors was able to get to an airport and land safely.

Godspeed
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Bede
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Bede » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:09 pm

I sure wasn't expecting this when I heard the initial report.

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TheFrankestFrank
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by TheFrankestFrank » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:50 pm

https://www.facebook.com/wasayaair/phot ... =3&theater

Pretty open with the press releases up to this stage, wonder if they will be so open if and when questions about operational control get asked and answered? Remind me again who's responsible for operational control?

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – Wasaya Update on Flight 127

Thunder Bay, ON, December 14, 2015 – Transport Canada arrived in Pickle Lake Sunday December 13th and has started their investigation of Wasaya Airways Flight 127. Wasaya is cooperating fully with authorities as they conduct their investigation.

Flight 127, a Cessna 208 Caravan Cargo aircraft flown by Captain Nick Little, left Pickle Lake at 9:00 AM Friday December 12th destined to Wapekeka. When the aircraft became overdue and not responding to radio calls, Wasaya’s Emergency Response Team was mobilized and almost simultaneously Canadian Forces Search and Rescue (SARs) notified and assistance to locate the aircraft and pilot sought. An onboard global positioning device carried on all Wasaya aircraft showed the aircraft approximately 28 KM north/northeast of Pickle Lake on or near Tarp Hill.

Visual confirmation by SARs aircraft was made at approximately 1:15PM precisely where the GPS coordinates from the onboard tracking system indicated; 28km north of Pickle Lake. Harsh weather elements hindered rescue efforts. The Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) along with SARs technicians launched a ground recovery operation and arrived at the aircraft site by foot at approximately 10:50PM. Captain Little was unresponsive and could not be resuscitated.

Wasaya chartered a Wisk Air Helicopter Friday, however due to poor weather and heavy icing in the area, the helicopter wasn’t able to arrive until Saturday morning. On Saturday the helicopter was used to take SARs Techs and OPP Investigators to the site, who were then successful in transporting the body of Captain Little to Pickle Lake.

“We are grieving the loss of Captain Nick Little. Our focus is caring for Nick’s family and our Wasaya family,” said Michael Rodyniuk, Wasaya President & CEO. “The aviation industry has been incredibly supportive, providing support and services, all of which we are grateful for receiving. To all those who have reached out we say thank you for your support, kind words and prayers. We continue to ensure the safety of our guests, crews, personnel and the communities we serve. Safety is our priority.”

Wasaya continues to provide regular service to its 25 destinations from its bases in Thunder Bay, Sioux Lookout, Red Lake and Pickle Lake. Wasaya is 100% First Nation owned, operating 60 flights per day throughout Northwestern Ontario.

Contact:
Sharon Smith-Baxter
Public Relations & Communications Specialist
Wasaya Airways LP
300 Anemki Place, Suite B RR #4
Thunder Bay, ON P7J 1H9

Phone: 807.629.1614
Email: ssmithbaxter@wasaya.com
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SAR_YQQ
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by SAR_YQQ » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:00 pm

TheFrankestFrank wrote: Wasaya chartered a Wisk Air Helicopter Friday, however due to poor weather and heavy icing in the area, the helicopter wasn’t able to arrive until Saturday morning. On Saturday the helicopter was used to take SARs Techs and OPP Investigators to the site, who were then successful in transporting the body of Captain Little to Pickle Lake.
Small factual error - SARTechs walked in on Friday night - stayed the night until the OPP team arrived on scene the next day.
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phillyfan
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by phillyfan » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:18 pm

Make this whole thread go away. It's embarrassing!
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TheFrankestFrank
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by TheFrankestFrank » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:38 pm

Looks like he just cut and pasted the latest press release they weren't his words or take on the events. Embarrassing? I don't know about that. Like all accidents everybody wants to know what happened. Yes it gets a little sideways sometimes but I don't think anybody is trying to be cruel or insensitive. I do give props to somebody within Wasaya for their efforts in trying to be out front of it and releasing press releases of what they can in a pretty timely manner.
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GCA
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by GCA » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:33 pm

nottellin wrote:
GCA wrote:RIP. Not to be blunt, climb climb climb.
If he picked up icing he wouldn't be able to climb as that is the problem with the van especially with a full load, this is very sad and i have been in very similar situations early on in my career but based on luck/environmental factors was able to get to an airport and land safely.

Godspeed
Firewall the thing, it will get out, or don't end up in that sit in the first place. I've been there.
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: Wasaya caravan missing

Post by Jean-Pierre » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:38 pm

GCA wrote:I've been there.
So many of us have. The way to learn the limit is to get close to it without going over and live to never do it again. Unfortunately this young man didn't get that second chance the rest of us did.
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