DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

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ski.fly
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DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#1 Post by ski.fly » Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:59 am

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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#2 Post by cjpilot » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:39 pm

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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#3 Post by pelmet » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:46 pm

At the rate people crash Beavers these days, one has to wonder when almost all will be gone.

Yes...it is frustrating to see Another one.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#4 Post by DHC2eater » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:50 pm

Yes tragic for sure......

If the Star Phoenix is correct....

He earned a ppl with a float endorsement last year and owned a 172 and a Beaver on floats ( for 6weeks)

Inexperienced prairie pilot un mentored in the mountains of BC in Oct ....I dunno ......

As great an aircraft as it is,it has a nasty stall characteristic,that is sudden, unforgiving,swift and unrecoverable without a bunch of air below....

So sad to hear!!!

Eater
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#5 Post by Mick G » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:29 am

pelmet wrote:At the rate people crash Beavers these days, one has to wonder when almost all will be gone.

Yes...it is frustrating to see Another one.

Viking owns the type certificates, and I don't believe it will be too much longer before they put the Beaver back into production.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#6 Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:01 pm

Some of them get rebuilt from as little as a data plate. There's also still many sitting in fields and not flying, being held by the bank, operator closed the doors, but hasn't sold assets yet, etc.

Regardless, I'm more concerned about the poor guy who died in the plane. As iconic as the plane is, it's still just a thing. Trivial in comparison to those who are no longer with us.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#7 Post by PilotDAR » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:32 am

As great an aircraft as it is,it has a nasty stall characteristic,that is sudden, unforgiving,swift and unrecoverable without a bunch of air below....
This theme has been mentioned from time to time over the years, and for my limited experience with the Beaver does not indite the Beaver any more than any other similar type. I discussed this with Russ Bannock many years ago, and he responded to me by taking me for a demonstration flight in his Beaver on floats. I was very experienced with 180/185 STOL equipped floatplanes at the time, and was awestruck at how agile and forgiving the Beaver was in that context. Since then, I have been less likely to think that Beaver surprised skilled pilot, but rather pilot failed to fly the Beaver.

Every plane will stall. Some hang on so well (far into the stall) that when they finally let go, the otherwise gradual progression into the stall happens more suddenly. Handling that, is just good piloting, and type familiarity to be able to apply skills to managing this characteristic.
Inexperienced prairie pilot un mentored in the mountains of BC in Oct
This theme causes me pause for thought - again....
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#8 Post by Its What I do » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:23 pm

Viking will not start production on the Beaver.
People will crash Beavers , 180s ,185s etc .
Training is key , mentoring, life experiences....
Very unfortunate but will continue to happen till people step back and take the training , suggestions experiences from others.

I have personally lost 3 very good friends from crashes . I personally tried to mentor ,train etc . If they dont embrace it wont change the outcome.

Godspeed , sympathy to the family
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#9 Post by godsrcrazy » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:19 pm

PilotDAR wrote:
Inexperienced prairie pilot un mentored in the mountains of BC in Oct
This theme causes me pause for thought - again....
Is there a preliminary report somewhere i missed. Why would anyone post something like this. Maybe he had a mechanical issue.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#10 Post by trey kule » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:37 pm

I just read the Citation thread and had the same thought about some of the posts there.

No idea why people have to make these kinds of posts after an accident. Maybe offerring their condolences, or saying how sad it is allows them to just toss whatever they are thinking out there without any thought to how it might affect the people who are involved, or their families..
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#11 Post by Rookie50 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:16 pm

godsrcrazy wrote:
PilotDAR wrote:



This theme causes me pause for thought - again....
Is there a preliminary report somewhere i missed. Why would anyone post something like this. Maybe he had a mechanical issue.
Totally agree. My condolences.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#12 Post by DHC2eater » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:24 pm

godsrcrazy wrote:
PilotDAR wrote:



This theme causes me pause for thought - again....
Is there a preliminary report somewhere i missed. Why would anyone post something like this. Maybe he had a mechanical issue.
Soooooo...it's ok for you to speculate on a mechanical issue......OK then!,,
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#13 Post by co-joe » Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:19 pm

trey kule wrote:I just read the Citation thread and had the same thought about some of the posts there.

No idea why people have to make these kinds of posts after an accident. Maybe offerring their condolences, or saying how sad it is allows them to just toss whatever they are thinking out there without any thought to how it might affect the people who are involved, or their families..
I think it's pretty natural to ask out loud, what went wrong? It's a puzzle with pieces that we understand more than the layman and we want to put them together. Nobody is directing blame that I have read. The C500, and the Beaver are a lot of machine for one person to handle each doing very different things yet each equally able to kill if not handled properly. Both sad events, and we do grieve, but we also ask the hard question of each other and ultimately of ourselves. Would I have been able to do something different? Would I have survived?
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#14 Post by trey kule » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:03 am

but we also ask the hard question of each other and ultimately of ourselves. Would I have been able to do something different? Would I have survived?
Exactly who says that? And why do we have to?
Why can we at least stop trying to answer the question until a more appropriate time,? Does the internet make us completely immune to the loss others have suffered, so we can just toss out any thought that pops into our mind.

Some of the speculation on these threads is not only not based on any factual information, but totally without respect for the survivors of such tragedies.

". inexperienced pilot un mentored in the mountains of BC...I dunno"

Exactly what hard question is that answering?

In any event, my sincere condolences to all that have suffered in these accidents..
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#15 Post by godsrcrazy » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:47 am

DHC2eater wrote:
godsrcrazy wrote:
PilotDAR wrote:
Is there a preliminary report somewhere i missed. Why would anyone post something like this. Maybe he had a mechanical issue.
Soooooo...it's ok for you to speculate on a mechanical issue......OK then!,,
Saying MAYBE he had a mechanical issue is not saying he had one.
Its What I do wrote:Inexperienced prairie pilot un mentored in the mountains of BC in Oct
Someone typing the above insinuates the pilot was not qualified. It also insinuates he messed up. Cant believe what people post on this site before the poor guy even has a funeral.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#16 Post by DHC2eater » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:50 am

GOD

NO....

You are incorrect on all accounts...

Please get a Webster and look up qualified and experienced may as well check insinuates and maybe.....while your at ...

Accident reports often don't surface for years.....in the mean time people/equipment are lost.

The loss of your friend, although tragic,happens frequently in the environment/conditions mentioned.

Your tantrums and attacks on me won't change that but if it makes you feel better ...fill your boots.

Flying the costal/interior mountains (especially in transition seasons)is a whole different game with a whole different way of doing things.....

The number of prairie pilots(of which I am one...with mountain experience) that have killed themselves and others over the last 50years and more is staggering!!!!

The " let's git er done " mentality in aviation will kill you!!!!

Eater
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#17 Post by DHC2eater » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:39 am

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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#18 Post by Rookie50 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:38 am

DHC2eater wrote:GOD

NO....

You are incorrect on all accounts...

Please get a Webster and look up qualified and experienced may as well check insinuates and maybe.....while your at ...

Accident reports often don't surface for years.....in the mean time people/equipment are lost.

The loss of your friend, although tragic,happens frequently in the environment/conditions mentioned.

Your tantrums and attacks on me won't change that but if it makes you feel better ...fill your boots.

Flying the costal/interior mountains (especially in transition seasons)is a whole different game with a whole different way of doing things.....

The number of prairie pilots(of which I am one...with mountain experience) that have killed themselves and others over the last 50years and more is staggering!!!!

The " let's git er done " mentality in aviation will kill you!!!!

Eater
DHC2,

"I don't know what happened" means simply, "I don't know".

It's a concept rather difficult for most people.

That is the status of this accident. Assuming pilot error is premature without facts.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#19 Post by DHC2eater » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:36 am

I believe the report is available!

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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#20 Post by Heliian » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:13 am

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 6p0180.asp

Almost 700lbs overweight and out of c of g limits and caught in rising terrain.

Somehow I think that a stall warning system wouldn't have made a difference. 700 lbs overweight! Wtf!
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#21 Post by PilotDAR » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:30 am

the aircraft was 682 pounds over its maximum weight and its centre of gravity was 3.1 inches beyond the aft limit.
Just in case there's any doubt, an aircraft which is stalled, let alone spun in that condition is likely unrecoverable no matter how good a pilot you are, and how much altitude there is. Weight and balance limits are there for a reason. The fact that an aircraft may fly out of limits does not mean it will be flyable as expected during the unexpected. Accidents in which three or four people were on board a 172 which was spun for fun are similar, behind that aft C of G limit. I did some of the slight testing required for the STC approval of the relocation of the engine of the Beaver. It was moved 9 3/4" further forward to allow aft cargo to be carried, and maintaining the C of G limits. I did all the W&B calculations for that, and there were a lot. It is a great mod for keeping a Beaver in balance (and accessing the mags for maintenance too!)
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#22 Post by Independence » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:44 pm

I doubt that a stall horn would have made any difference in this case. I can't imagine a 300 hr private pilot with less than 10 hrs experience with a Beaver on floats, recovering a 700 lb overweight aircraft (that takes climb power to maintain level flight) and that is 100 ft above the trees when it stalls, even if a stall horn did sound.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#23 Post by SuperchargedRS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:58 pm

Maybe I read that wrong, but the overweight and aft CG were of course not good, but they were not the cause of the crash, seems choosing a improper altitude for that flight and waiting till the last minute to climb were the cause of the crash.


As much as I enjoy flying low on floats, with the visibility not being restricted and no real cloud decks, seems like if he was a thousand feet higher, which he appears to have easily been able to do, this wouldn't have happened.

Flying low is fun, but I've always been a fan of stay above 5 to stay alive (500AGL).
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#24 Post by Redneck_pilot86 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:26 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:58 pm
Maybe I read that wrong, but the overweight and aft CG were of course not good, but they were not the cause of the crash, seems choosing a improper altitude for that flight and waiting till the last minute to climb were the cause of the crash.


As much as I enjoy flying low on floats, with the visibility not being restricted and no real cloud decks, seems like if he was a thousand feet higher, which he appears to have easily been able to do, this wouldn't have happened.

Flying low is fun, but I've always been a fan of stay above 5 to stay alive (500AGL).
What gives you the impression he was easily able to climb another 1000'? I read it that he was unable to climb whilst headed into rising terrain, and he didn't turn away soon enough so when he did start the turn, the bank angle needed for the turn increased the stall speed above the current airspeed. If he was able to easily climb another 1000', he wouldn't have ended up 100 AGL. The trouble started when he couldn't climb.
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Re: DHC-2 Crash - Northern BC

#25 Post by C.W.E. » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:08 pm

The trouble started when he couldn't climb.

Or maybe he couldn't climb fast enough to clear the rising terrain?
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