Right gear collapse on Flybe Q400 (video) Feb 23rd

[Troubleshot]

doesn't look like the touchdown was hard.


http://www.airlive.net/breaking-right-g ... -schiphol/

[skypirate88]

Difficult to tell, but it looked like they may have burst one of the mains.

There has been some guidance from Bombardier regarding landing with a blown tire and the potential for the collapse of the gear.

[sanjet]

From the video I just watched, the touch down looked pretty hard. Sink rate never slowed.
Winds gusting above 50 kts..

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a550e8d&opt=0

[tango308]

Video from inside the cabin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgSs7a3AeE4

[av8ts]

Looks like a pretty hard landing. The Dash 100/200 has a shear pin as part of the gear that will shear with less than a 1000fpm touchdown. Not sure if the Q has the same. This is from the report of Air Greenland gear collapse in 2014

"In the level attitude the shear pin will fail at a rate of descent between 14.9 (894 feet/minute) and 15.7 ft/sec (942 feet/minute). In the tail down attitude the shear pin will fail at a rate of descent between 16.6 (996 feet/minute) and 17.15 ft/sec (1029 feet/minute). In both cases, at the instant of pin failure the horizontal ground load will be small"

[Canoehead]

Ya that was definitely a hard landing.
With the video available the investigators should figure this out pretty quick.

If this happened in Canada, we'd still have to wait 3+ years for a final report.

[Aux1]

http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r ... 4w0177.asp

AD Number: CF-2016-31

[sstaurus]

Just a side note, and I only have experience on the q400, but I notice many pilots I fly with have a bad habit of always landing on one gear first, as a method of trying to eke out a smooth landing. A bad habit that makes me cringe thinking about the unnecessary loads continually being applied to one side... Not saying this is what happened here as it appears to be a significant xwind here.

[xchox]

Hard landing... Sure... Hard enough for a gear collapse though?

[Pratt X 3]

Just a side note, and I only have experience on the q400, but I notice many pilots I fly with have a bad habit of always landing on one gear first, as a method of trying to eke out a smooth landing. A bad habit that makes me cringe thinking about the unnecessary loads continually being applied to one side... Not saying this is what happened here as it appears to be a significant xwind here.

Huh? Please elaborate on this.

[Aux1]

@sstaurus

1) Who ever told you "landing on one gear first, as a method of trying to eke out a smooth landing." may have been having a bit of fun at your expense...

2) You are not a pilot, are you?

3) Have you read the post directly above yours regarding the TSB report and the TC AD on this aircraft?

Just a side note, and I only have experience on the q400, but I notice many pilots I fly with have a bad habit of always landing on one gear first, as a method of trying to eke out a smooth landing. A bad habit that makes me cringe thinking about the unnecessary loads continually being applied to one side... Not saying this is what happened here as it appears to be a significant xwind here.

[Mach7]

I think the clue is in the video that was taken from the cabin.

As far as I remember, when the gear is down and locked the PSEU will automatically close the clamshell doors that are located directly behind the gear. In other words the PSEU will open the doors, the gear will exit, then the doors will close after approx 6 to 8 seconds following gear extension.

Note that when the cell phone camera is panned to the aft, the doors are fully open.

This tell me that it was not the touchdown that collapsed the gear, but rather an input to retract it, otherwise the doors would look like crumpled tinfoil.

My money is on an electrical malfunction of some sort.

[Aux1]

I think the clue is in the video that was taken from the cabin.

As far as I remember, when the gear is down and locked the PSEU will automatically close the clamshell doors that are located directly behind the gear. In other words the PSEU will open the doors, the gear will exit, then the doors will close after approx 6 to 8 seconds following gear extension.

Note that when the cell phone camera is panned to the aft, the doors are fully open.

+1 ^

Also note that in the other video (showing the Flybe accident aircraft pass overhead), the aft (clamshell) doors are closed. Then as shown from the cabin video, they are open. Something caused the doors to open.

The TSB in their final report (referenced in a post above), on the 2014 YEG Q400 accident where the right gear collapsed on touchdown, state:
At the scene of the occurrence, the right MLG rear doors were found to be in the open state, indicating that the SSV had commanded them to open.

Also from the same TSB report on the 2014 gear collapse:
Findings as to causes and contributing factors
1. The number 3 tire ruptured on takeoff, most likely as a result of impact with a hard object.
2. During landing, the failed number 3 tire was spun by contact with the ground and was maintained at a rotational speed that was the same as or very close to one of the natural frequencies of the main landing gear. This caused the lock links to trigger the proximity sensor electronic unit to de-energize the solenoid sequence valve, thereby relieving system pressure from the extend port of the unlock actuator.
3. The excessive vibration caused the lock links to overcome the force from the downlock springs and unlock the stabilizer brace as a result of gear dynamics, which led to collapse of the right main landing gear.

[Chaxterium]

Just a side note, and I only have experience on the q400, but I notice many pilots I fly with have a bad habit of always landing on one gear first, as a method of trying to eke out a smooth landing. A bad habit that makes me cringe thinking about the unnecessary loads continually being applied to one side... Not saying this is what happened here as it appears to be a significant xwind here.

This was how I landed the Dash 7 almost every time. Worked like a charm.

[Maynard]

doesn't look like the touchdown was hard.


http://www.airlive.net/breaking-right-g ... -schiphol/

Actually looks very hard. Not to mention just before the gear touches there is a large input to starboard driving the gear into the ground harder.

[GyvAir]

Front view of the landing also appears to show a pretty fast sink rate.

[Troubleshot]

doesn't look like the touchdown was hard.


http://www.airlive.net/breaking-right-g ... -schiphol/

Actually looks very hard. Not to mention just before the gear touches there is a large input to starboard driving the gear into the ground harder.

Yeah only seen one angle when I posted, the other views are a bit more telling. plus I am not a Q400 pilot, or a pilot of any aircraft

[PostmasterGeneral]

They're evacuating out the left side with the #1 engine still running??!

Hard to tell if it's even in feather. I know how filming a spinning prop tends to play tricks on the eyes depending on the frame rate.

[J31]

Left engine continues to run throughout the evacuation. Were they not able to shut it down!?

[BTD]

That front view video looks to be sped up. Hard to tell the actual sink rate.