WestJet almost puts one in the drink

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Kitzbuhel
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#76 Post by Kitzbuhel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:05 am

Good thing it was a Canadian crew, I don't want to imagine what could have happened if they were TFWs :roll:
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#77 Post by Old fella » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:30 am

BTD wrote:
B208 wrote:I wonder if this is similar to that Air Canada crash a few years ago out east, (Halifax I think), where the crew started down on the 3 degree GP a few miles too early.
Source?

There is no report yet that I can find. Did I miss it?
Living in the area in question, I haven't seen anything published to date and I am sure the media would have pick it up as there are people who have lawsuits ongoing. Usually the TSB has a media conference to publicly release their report as this accident gained media attention. Finally I haven't seen anything on the TSB site either. Perhaps there is something unofficial floating about, I don't know either
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#78 Post by tincanflyer » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:13 pm

Worked for me.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhAYKM-7LQ

Crazy?!? Where's Westjet's comment?!?

Guess it's not a edited picture.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#79 Post by GyvAir » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:34 pm

Didn't they already comment to the effect that that was >500' ASL?

Somehow, I doubt they will willingly comment publicly on a YouTube video. It will be interesting to see how they handle it publicly from here, if it does turn into a story. So far, it hasn’t being picked up by much of the mainstream media.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#80 Post by kevenv » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:30 pm

GyvAir wrote:So far, it hasn’t being picked up by much of the mainstream media.
If this was Air Canada, the media would be all over it, there would be calls for an immediate inquiry and people would be demanding the public beheading of the pilots involved.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#81 Post by Ancient » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:47 pm

GyvAir wrote:If quoted correctly in the article, the ones that didn't do their jobs well are the Westjet spokesperson and the people providing her with her information.
“According to the information I have been given there was nothing unusual about the first approach,” said Lauren Stewart, a spokeswoman for the Calgary-based carrier. Citing FlightAware logs, Stewart said the plane was never lower than 500 feet before the go-around.

The spokesman's response was probably actually very calculated. People tend to remember what they heard first and not the final story. If they heard first that there was nothing unusual about the approach then that's what they will 'know'. Follow-up reports will get less views and attention. Sort of like how when the news drags someone's name through the mud and the says oops and prints a retraction the damage is already done. Except Westjet is doing the opposite and saying it was nothing even though they likely knew it was a close call.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#82 Post by CpnCrunch » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:44 pm

Ancient wrote: Except Westjet is doing the opposite and saying it was nothing even though they likely knew it was a close call.
A bit like Air Canada's "hard landing".
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#83 Post by pilotguy2017 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:04 pm

I'm sure there will be a meeting taking place in Calgary about this tomorrow. Damage control mode will set in pretty quick.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#84 Post by Heliian » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:58 pm

Holy f, calm the h down people. They were low and went around. Sure, debrief and don't do it again. That video was put together by someone with too much time on their hands. However, judging by the umbrellas blowing it looks like they were in a bad moment of weather. Probably got some bad winds and dealt with it. Also, IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO GO AROUND if you think there is a need, another uneducated observation from some armchair flight sim expert.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#85 Post by KAG » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:29 am

I clearly have no idea what happened, but they did the right thing in going around. There are a lot of reason a plane ends up short of the runway on approach, it happens too often with non precision approaches.
There will be valuable lessons learned, one which I hope we all have a good take away. Trust me, its wasn't because of "cowboy" anything, its just not something that happens too often at this level, especially here.
Our planes monitor us and report deviations to the company, and honestly its just not worth the risk.
Again, good job in going around.

As mentioned above its never too late to go around, I literally watched a balked landing yesterday in LGA as a 737 bounced a landing in a crosswind and went around. Good call on them for going around.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#86 Post by Bede » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:41 am

Mountain out of a mole hill.

Watch the video. It's 6.5 s from the lowest point to when the plane is over the threshold. At 140 kts that's 0.25 NM back. Normally, you'd be around 100' AGL going into SXM at that point. They're probably about 50' at the lowest point. So...they lost 50' for whatever reason and went around. Seems like a good job by the crew.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#87 Post by telex » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:33 am

Damage control mode will set in pretty quick.
It sure did! :lol:
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#88 Post by Old fella » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:42 am

Bede wrote:Mountain out of a mole hill.

Watch the video. It's 6.5 s from the lowest point to when the plane is over the threshold. At 140 kts that's 0.25 NM back. Normally, you'd be around 100' AGL going into SXM at that point. They're probably about 50' at the lowest point. So...they lost 50' for whatever reason and went around. Seems like a good job by the crew.
Exactly. I am not an airline pilot, never was but in my lack of airline wisdom I am of the view this crew recognized a possible unstable situation, executed a go around for another approach followed by an uneventful landing. As I said earlier, this crew did exactly what was expected of them aka they did their jobs. Not much else can be said outside of sensationalizing this incident.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#89 Post by Big Bird Anonymous » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:10 am

Heliian wrote:Holy f, calm the h down people. They were low and went around. Sure, debrief and don't do it again. That video was put together by someone with too much time on their hands. However, judging by the umbrellas blowing it looks like they were in a bad moment of weather. Probably got some bad winds and dealt with it. Also, IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO GO AROUND if you think there is a need, another uneducated observation from some armchair flight sim expert.
Just low? How about slow. Way behind aircraft, perhaps distracted by need to make an entrance. Not a ticket I would spend money on.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#90 Post by ahramin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:19 pm

I don't have a dog in this fight but there may be a lesson here relevant to all IFR pilots.

Sometimes these situations develop because the crew descends past the MDA without the required visual references in the expectation of the runway appearing soon where they think it is.

Obviously this is not necessarily the case here so no point in bashing the crew without the facts. I believe it is a possibility though so no point in exonerating the crew without the facts.

For those of you with an addiction to this sort of calumnous masturbation please continue your discussion.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#91 Post by av8ts » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:30 pm

BTD wrote:
B208 wrote:I wonder if this is similar to that Air Canada crash a few years ago out east, (Halifax I think), where the crew started down on the 3 degree GP a few miles too early.
Source?

There is no report yet that I can find. Did I miss it?
The rumour that they input the wrong FPA has been going around for at least a year
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Last edited by av8ts on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#92 Post by Ah_yeah » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:55 pm

Having flown in to SXM several times, I will add that MDA is only as important as the MAP on this approach. Juliana VOR is co-located with the field so the 2.0DME MAP is the key here. You MUST see the the runway or go around. It's 2 miles out because of the twin hills east of the airport. I would guess that's why ATC made it's comment about that late GA. Also, there are no approach lights so you better see the threshold or you can easily lose sight in a shower. Let's not crucify WJA or the crew. It looks like an approach gone sideways but I'm sure every pro driver would only want the details to learn from it rather than gloat.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#93 Post by porcsord » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:53 pm

WestJet Boeing 737-800
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On Tuesday, March 7, WestJet flight 2652 from Toronto to St. Maarten executed a missed approach (go-around) at Princess Juliana International Airport (SXM) and was captured by local photographers and aircraft enthusiasts. The approach to SXM is a famous plane-spotting location because Maho Beach is located directly in front of the runway, giving aviation enthusiasts and tourists alike a very close view of landing aircraft.

Video and photos of the missed approached spawned articles with unfortunate and frankly, irresponsible headlines such as, “Near Miss” and “WestJet denies close call caught on camera at St. Maarten,” with some even speculating on a potential disaster that was averted.

We think it’s important to share with you what a missed approach means and how this “near miss” was anything but.

Every day our pilots safely land some 700 flights throughout our network of more than 100 destinations in over 20 different countries, many of which have unique weather and terrain. Occasionally a landing will be aborted and a missed approach initiated if the pilots determine it’s the best option. In this case, our crew experienced rapidly changing weather conditions and as a result descended below the normal glide path on the approach to the landing. The crew recognized the situation, and the regularly trained and desired outcome was obtained – a safe missed approach to a safe landing.

There can be any number of reasons why a go-around could be made. Weather or runway conditions may be less than ideal, or there may be other aircraft still on, or in the vicinity of, the runway. Regardless of the reason, pilots are trained to initiate a missed approach without hesitation, and go-arounds like the one executed last week at SXM – while not something we do every day – are also not uncommon. Relying on their skill, training and experience, our pilots who landed our Boeing 737-800 at SXM last week made the right call, and the process worked the way in which it’s intended.

All situations like this will have a fulsome review with learnings applied. Perspective is always helpful when you’re looking at a photo or video, or reading or hearing something in the news. Thanks for visiting our blog to get ours.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#94 Post by photofly » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:12 pm

Yes, repeat- no.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#95 Post by tincanflyer » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:53 pm

Takesa little world wide coverage to finally hear something from ol' WJ.

http://www.wetter.at/wetter/welt-wetter ... /272921651

https://vn.sputniknews.com/videoclub/20 ... bay-video/
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#96 Post by B208 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 am

BTD wrote:
B208 wrote:I wonder if this is similar to that Air Canada crash a few years ago out east, (Halifax I think), where the crew started down on the 3 degree GP a few miles too early.
Source?

There is no report yet that I can find. Did I miss it?
My apologies, I based my comment on some unofficial spit balling I had heard. There is no official, citeable source.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#97 Post by share-once » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:50 pm

And here I thought we were talking about real pilot concerns.
Well.....for the real pilots here is how you put them in the drink.
https://cdn.shutterstock.com/shuttersto ... lasses.mp4
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#98 Post by GyvAir » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:12 pm

Third and fourth approaches really should have been go arounds.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#99 Post by pdw » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:13 pm

(The multi drink analogy -- where each ice dropped in represents the approach -- is perfect, as it illustrates how every new approach result is never identical to any previous.)

Here again, a SPECI is issued for 19:35utc (wx hist) at the airport's station and this event occurs at 19:33.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

#100 Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:21 pm

Kitzbuhel wrote:Good thing it was a Canadian crew, I don't want to imagine what could have happened if they were TFWs :roll:
You know who the pilots were ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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