Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when landing
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Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when landing
Oops...when laNding. Gotta admit, I didn't think it was much of an issue.
C-FJQH, an Airbus 321-211 aircraft operated by Air Canada rouge, was conducting flight ROU1633 from Sarasota/Bradenton Intl, FL (KSRQ) to Toronto/Lester B. Pearson Intl, ON (CYYZ). During the flare phase over Runway 23R at CYYZ, the flight crew encountered difficulties in
controlling the aircraft as a result of uncommanded deviations in pitch and roll. The aircraft continued the landing uneventfully. The flight crew suspected they encountered wake turbulence from a Boeing 777-300 aircraft that had taken off prior to their landing on the same runway. A
report of the event was submitted to the company's SMS database for further review.
C-FJQH, an Airbus 321-211 aircraft operated by Air Canada rouge, was conducting flight ROU1633 from Sarasota/Bradenton Intl, FL (KSRQ) to Toronto/Lester B. Pearson Intl, ON (CYYZ). During the flare phase over Runway 23R at CYYZ, the flight crew encountered difficulties in
controlling the aircraft as a result of uncommanded deviations in pitch and roll. The aircraft continued the landing uneventfully. The flight crew suspected they encountered wake turbulence from a Boeing 777-300 aircraft that had taken off prior to their landing on the same runway. A
report of the event was submitted to the company's SMS database for further review.
Last edited by pelmet on Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
The obvious solution to this is a circular runway.
Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
Sounds more like jet blast. The CADOR doesn't say how close they were but how would the wake of an aircraft lifting off get down to the start of the runway?
Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
It is entirely possible as the vortices could travel with the wind and eventually cause a problem. I've heard of vortices being felt miles away.
Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
This morning we heard of a landing A321 feeling vortices from a departing 777, doesn't mean that's what happened.Heliian wrote:It is entirely possible as the vortices could travel with the wind and eventually cause a problem. I've heard of vortices being felt miles away.
While a quartering tailwind can push a landing aircraft's vortices into the touchdown zone, the time it would take for a quartering headwind to push a vortex over 5000' down the runway is over 10 minutes. If the landing crew was aware of the aircraft type taking off in front, it obviously didn't take off 10 minutes ago. Not to mention in that sort of wind I doubt the vortex would be coherent after 10 minutes.
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Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
Might have been the proceeding aircraft that landed ahead of the A321
Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
The CADORS update is badly written.
EVA035 departed 33R before ROU1633 landed on 23.
If the flight paths do not cross (i.e. the landing aircraft touches down prior to 33R) there is no separation standard but a cautionary will be issued.
If the flight paths cross 2 minutes separation is required.
There is no wake turbulence requirement for any landing behind a heavy departing the same runway. If you get bumped around, its due to jet blast not wingtip vortices as these don't occur until the nose wheel lifts off.
EVA035 departed 33R before ROU1633 landed on 23.
If the flight paths do not cross (i.e. the landing aircraft touches down prior to 33R) there is no separation standard but a cautionary will be issued.
If the flight paths cross 2 minutes separation is required.
There is no wake turbulence requirement for any landing behind a heavy departing the same runway. If you get bumped around, its due to jet blast not wingtip vortices as these don't occur until the nose wheel lifts off.
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Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
Worry about "wake turbulence"? I don't even believe in it. Superstitious nonsense.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
If you are correct, it is very poorly written as it says...."he flight crew suspected they encountered wake turbulence from a Boeing 777-300 aircraft that had taken off prior to their landing on the same runway."cossack wrote:The CADORS update is badly written.
EVA035 departed 33R before ROU1633 landed on 23.
If the flight paths do not cross (i.e. the landing aircraft touches down prior to 33R) there is no separation standard but a cautionary will be issued.
If the flight paths cross 2 minutes separation is required.
There is no wake turbulence requirement for any landing behind a heavy departing the same runway. If you get bumped around, its due to jet blast not wingtip vortices as these don't occur until the nose wheel lifts off.
Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
A few years ago I was in a 321 landing on 06R in YYZ right after a 787 took off, their jet blast buffeted us around a fair bit, almost made us go around but managed to keep things in order.
Re: Do you worry about wake from departing A/C when lamding
The initial CADORS:
An Air Canada Rouge Airbus A321 (ROU1633) from Sarasota, FL (KSRQ) to Toronto, ON (CYYZ) encountered wake turbulence when landing Runway 23. An Eva Airways Boeing 777 300 (EVA035) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Taipei, Taiwan (RCTP) had previously departed Runway 33 right. Less than required wake turbulence separation maintained. No operational impact.
The update:
UPDATE: TSB Report#A17O0024: C-FJQH, an Airbus 321-211 aircraft operated by Air Canada rouge, was conducting flight ROU1633 from Sarasota/Bradenton Intl, FL (KSRQ) to Toronto/Lester B. Pearson Intl, ON (CYYZ). During the flare phase over Runway 23R at CYYZ, the flight crew encountered difficulties in controlling the aircraft as a result of uncommanded deviations in pitch and roll. The aircraft continued the landing uneventfully. The flight crew suspected they encountered wake turbulence from a Boeing 777-300 aircraft that had taken off prior to their landing on the same runway. A report of the event was submitted to the company's SMS database for further review.
How the writer can then mess up the update....
An Air Canada Rouge Airbus A321 (ROU1633) from Sarasota, FL (KSRQ) to Toronto, ON (CYYZ) encountered wake turbulence when landing Runway 23. An Eva Airways Boeing 777 300 (EVA035) from Toronto, ON (CYYZ) to Taipei, Taiwan (RCTP) had previously departed Runway 33 right. Less than required wake turbulence separation maintained. No operational impact.
The update:
UPDATE: TSB Report#A17O0024: C-FJQH, an Airbus 321-211 aircraft operated by Air Canada rouge, was conducting flight ROU1633 from Sarasota/Bradenton Intl, FL (KSRQ) to Toronto/Lester B. Pearson Intl, ON (CYYZ). During the flare phase over Runway 23R at CYYZ, the flight crew encountered difficulties in controlling the aircraft as a result of uncommanded deviations in pitch and roll. The aircraft continued the landing uneventfully. The flight crew suspected they encountered wake turbulence from a Boeing 777-300 aircraft that had taken off prior to their landing on the same runway. A report of the event was submitted to the company's SMS database for further review.
How the writer can then mess up the update....