Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

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pelmet
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Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by pelmet »

Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Two Icon Aircraft employees including a key aircraft designer were killed in a crash of an A5 in Napa County, California, May 8, the first-ever fatal accident involving the high-profile amphibious light sport aircraft.

Jon Karkow, 55, was the lead test pilot on the A5 and helped design and refine its folding wings and other air and water control surfaces. The Icon won rave reviews from pilots who flew it for its crisp handling and forgiving nature, characteristics that in most airplanes are at odds with each other. The A5’s spin-resistant design was meant to make it among the safest aircraft in its category.

Karkow was a lead engineer at Scaled Composites before joining Icon and played a central role in designing and building the long-winged GlobalFlyer in which adventurer Steve Fossett set world distance and endurance records.

Tall, thin, thoughtful, and quiet, Maine native Karkow was credited with giving the elegant-looking A5 extraordinary flying qualities and obedient water handling.

Cagri Sever, 41, had recently moved to Icon’s headquarters in Vacaville, California, from Ann Arbor, Michigan.
Photos of the crashed airplane appear to show that it struck the shoreline at Lake Berryessa, a scenic lake in Napa where Icon does the bulk of its flight training on the West Coast.

Icon Founder Kirk Hawkins said in a Facebook post that the loss of Karkow and Sever was a heavy blow. “This was a devastating personal loss for many of us,” he said. “Please hold your calls and requests for a brief period while we work through this tragic event with the family members and employees. The thoughts and prayers of our entire organization are with the families of both people on board, they were both truly amazing individuals.”

About 20 Icon A5s have been built and logged more than 3,500 flight hours collectively. The first mishap involving an A5 took place April 1 in Miami, when an airplane with two Icon employees aboard was damaged in what the company described as a “hard water landing” that broke the hull.

Icon has orders for 1,800 aircraft but has struggled to produce airplanes in volume, and its plans to deliver aircraft to customers is far behind its original schedule.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by pelmet »

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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by North Shore »

Hmm, went into a narrow cove, and couldn't turn sharply enough, or outclimb terrain?
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by GyvAir »

My best guess as to the coordinates is 38°32'24.7"N 122°08'34.5"W
Flying north, they were certainly heading into rising terrain, with no out on either side.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by CpnCrunch »

Highly experienced test pilot, flying at home base. It seems unlikely they were flying into the unknown (either aerodynamically or geographically). Perhaps he said "watch what it can do..." and didn't leave enough margin for error? It makes me wonder about the crashworthiness.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by PilotDAR »

An extra factor associated with waterborne aircraft, which distinguishes them from landplanes, is that operation normally is from places other than aerodromes. This places an immense burden on pilots to determine and maintain their own procedures for safe operations, rather than depending upon a defined "circuit", wind indicators, and other infrastructure pilots take for granted around airports. The freedom of maneuvering as you wish, free of regulatory oversight or authority can be very distracting......
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by GyvAir »

If I have the spot correct, at 80', or two 40' elevation lines above the lake, you could draw about a 750' circle between the three points of land in the area.
How much room would that aircraft need to safely make a 180?
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by pelmet »

While we don't know the cause, it would be a sad irony that the company which is promoting its great new aircraft to the average non-pilot with videos showing many higher-risk low flying scenes has a highly experienced test pilot killed in an accident caused by low flying in a high risk environment.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ICONA5

Then again, as smart as most test pilots usually are, it doesn't guarantee that their experience level in in other areas of aviation. And judgement is possibly more important. I recently read about a couple of military test pilots killed many years back in the US doing engine out controllability tests at low altitude to remain clear of cloud. Not the best of ideas.
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Last edited by pelmet on Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by PilotDAR »

With direct reference to Gyvair's informative graphic, there is no way an airplane should be flying "down in" that place. That it foolishness. If a pilot blundered into a confined area like that, the very best (of the many poor possible) outcome, would be to land in the water ahead, hoping it was suitable, and hope to taxi back out to a suitable flying area.

I see a worrying shift in the display of risk taking. In times not too long past, we would hear about, and maybe read about in accident reports, silly things pilots attempted. Occasionally, we might be at the airport to see it. But thankfully, for the most part in those times, what pilots, particularly new and impressionable, would see would be decent circuits being flown at an airport, or maybe fairly professional floatplane operations, were they to occasion floatplane bases.

Now, with the availability of Youtube etc. and now handy video cameras, we are saturated with people demonstrating silly things in aircraft, seemingly seeking to be the most extreme and daring. That discourages me. For that reason, I have opted out of internet groups, where the presentation of high risk flying seems to prevail.

I own two amphib flying boats, which I fly frequently. I am so lucky to have the freedom to fly (at all, compared to most countries), let along the vastness to do it. I can go and make all the poor choices I want, and take high risk for the glory. Or, I can simply fly with conservative safety, and continue to enjoy a life of flying, which is, so far, accident free. Having a friend killed in a flying boat reminds me of this yet again....

The fact that you can do something in a plane, does not equate to you should do it.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by pelmet »

PilotDAR wrote:I see a worrying shift in the display of risk taking. In times not too long past, we would hear about, and maybe read about in accident reports, silly things pilots attempted. Occasionally, we might be at the airport to see it. But thankfully, for the most part in those times, what pilots, particularly new and impressionable, would see would be decent circuits being flown at an airport, or maybe fairly professional floatplane operations, were they to occasion floatplane bases.

Now, with the availability of Youtube etc. and now handy video cameras, we are saturated with people demonstrating silly things in aircraft, seemingly seeking to be the most extreme and daring. That discourages me. For that reason, I have opted out of internet groups, where the presentation of high risk flying seems to prevail.
Possibly, but I don't think there was any shortage off low flying accidents way back during WWII with all the training bases in Canada/US.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by GyvAir »

450' canyon turns in the A5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONzOx6tEay4?t=6m

I wouldn't want to have that demonstrated to me down in a canyon.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by GyvAir »

So.. wasting a little more time on a rainy day here.
To be honest, at first glance, from the perspective of a low hour amateur pilot who’s never been PIC flying around a significant hill, the valley didn’t look all that steep from the vantage point of Google 3D. So, I did a little measuring and rough calculation to see if it could have been flown by that aircraft.
The ridge they would have to clear is about 1100’ elevation (660’ above lake elevation of 440’) and two kilometers from the end of the inlet. Assuming a starting altitude of 500’ (60’ above the water) one would have to climb 600’ in the space of the 2km - or at the A5’s Vy of 60kts (111km/h), in about 65 seconds.
Betting on 600fpm on 100hp with two people on board, just to clip the treetops? Never mind trying to account for possible unfavourable winds, etc. No, thanks.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by GyvAir »

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/N ... 482-1.html

The NTSB on Tuesday released its final report on the Icon A5 crash on May 8 that took the lives of two Icon employees, pilot Jon Karkow and passenger Cagri Sever. The investigators found the probable cause of the accident was “the pilot's failure to maintain clearance from terrain while maneuvering at a low altitude.” Contributing to the accident was the pilot's mistaken entry into a canyon surrounded by steep rising terrain while at a low altitude, for reasons that could not be determined. The investigators didn’t find any mechanical problem or failure with the aircraft that contributed to the accident. They did report that in examining the wreckage, they found that the ballistic parachute handle was partially extended, and the pin was removed.

The report states it’s “likely that the pilot mistakenly thought the canyon that he entered was a different canyon that led to the larger, open portion of the lake.” Also, the report continues, “it is likely that, once the pilot realized there was no exit from the canyon, he attempted to perform a 180-degree left turn to exit in the direction from which he entered.” However, the NTSB found that based upon data in the Pilot's Operating Handbook for the A5, the airplane's altitude above the water's surface and its indicated airspeed, and the ridge line elevations in the area adjacent to the accident site, “the airplane would have not been able to climb out of the rising terrain that surrounded the area, which led to [the pilot’s] failure to maintain clearance from terrain.”

Icon released a statement on Tuesday noting that investigators found “the airplane appeared to be operating normally at the time of the accident and that the ‘post‐accident examination of the airframe and engine revealed no evidence of any preexisting mechanical malfunctions that would have precluded normal operation.’” Icon CEO Kirk Hawkins said the NTSB report is “an important step in reaching closure for the families of Jon and Cagri as well as the Icon team after such a traumatic loss.” Sever was a new employee in the engineering department, and Karkow was a founding member of the Icon team and lead aeronautical engineer on the A5. “The A5 not only reflects his genius, it represents his love for flying in its purest form – it was his final gift to aviation,” said Hawkins.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by pelmet »

Probably easy to do. I suppose in this particular case, one could do a couple of fly-by's at 90 degrees to the entrance to make sure that It is safe. There must be some experienced guys who flew VFR in the Rockies...what were your techniques.

I did one course out in BC and the same sort of thing almost got done.Should be doing another course this month.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by 5x5 »

This company has frustrated me from the beginning due to their presentation of the A5 as being similar to a jetski with wings. They promote low flying and have posted some extremely ill-advised videos of poor flying including skimming wingtips during turns. Very much all about "thrill" flying. I continue to cringe about the potential for accidents as more of these get into the hands of people who buy them as advertised and fly with little or no experience in very challenging situations.

Off the soapbox, and relating to the NTSB's statement about a mistaken valley entrance, here's a google view of where they were. I don't see anything nearby that looks like it could be this:
AVweb re: NTSB wrote:The report states it’s “likely that the pilot mistakenly thought the canyon that he entered was a different canyon that led to the larger, open portion of the lake.”
On the arm of the lake where they were flying there is no valley to the west that opens onto a larger portion of the lake. A basic requirement for flying into any valley/canyon is that you have to know where you are. If you aren't completely certain, don't enter the valley. And certainly not at low altitude.


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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by gwagen »

5x5 wrote:This company has frustrated me from the beginning due to their presentation of the A5 as being similar to a jetski with wings. They promote low flying and have posted some extremely ill-advised videos of poor flying including skimming wingtips during turns. Very much all about "thrill" flying. I continue to cringe about the potential for accidents as more of these get into the hands of people who buy them as advertised and fly with little or no experience in very challenging situations.

Off the soapbox, and relating to the NTSB's statement about a mistaken valley entrance, here's a google view of where they were. I don't see anything nearby that looks like it could be this:
AVweb re: NTSB wrote:The report states it’s “likely that the pilot mistakenly thought the canyon that he entered was a different canyon that led to the larger, open portion of the lake.”
On the arm of the lake where they were flying there is no valley to the west that opens onto a larger portion of the lake. A basic requirement for flying into any valley/canyon is that you have to know where you are. If you aren't completely certain, don't enter the valley. And certainly not at low altitude.

You should've seen their pavilion at Oshkosh, massive, loud music pumping away, fancy lighting and designed interior. In a word, hype. They seem to think they need it as their product has continuously failed to meet expectations, coupled with bizarre contracts and other hindrances.

I suspect their future will be short lived.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by trey kule »

This company has frustrated me from the beginning due to their presentation of the A5 as being similar to a jetski with wings. They promote low flying and have posted some extremely ill-advised videos of poor flying including skimming wingtips during turns. Very much all about "thrill" flying. I continue to cringe about the potential for accidents as more of these get into the hands of people who buy them as advertised and fly with little or no experience in very challenging situations.
Me too. Seems like their thrill a minute marketing campaign does not appeal to all pilots....they need to add. " fly safe" to their ads...i have learned from reading the accident forums that pilots need to be told to do that.

Pelmet...flying 90 degrees by the mouth of a opening does not really tell you much except which way the water may be flowing. Go high. Mountains tend to be farther apart at the top than the bottom. And if you dont know the valley, cant get over top, dont go in there. That simple...there is no workaround for not knowing what you cant see.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by CpnCrunch »

pelmet wrote:Probably easy to do. I suppose in this particular case, one could do a couple of fly-by's at 90 degrees to the entrance to make sure that It is safe. There must be some experienced guys who flew VFR in the Rockies...what were your techniques.

I did one course out in BC and the same sort of thing almost got done.Should be doing another course this month.
I don't have a huge amount of experience in the mountains, but the general idea is to *not* fly low up valleys. You either fly near the peaks where you have a good view ahead and more options, or else have enough height and horizontal space to be able to turn around. Low flying in the mountains is generally risky and mostly unnecessary...that's how Sparky Imeson and Steve Fossett died. (If your job is to fly in all weather in the mountains, you'll hopefully be highly experienced at mountain flying, and you'll accept the increased risks).

If you want to see people flying on the very edge of what is safe in the mountains, Everest Rescue is a good show to watch (on Discovery...if you have Shaw it will be in the on-demand page).
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by hamstandard »

Nice airplane though.
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Re: Icon's lead test pilot killed in A5 accident

Post by hamstandard »

Why can I not delete posts in this forum. I had a double post and it won't let me erase it.
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