Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

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CpnCrunch
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#26 Post by CpnCrunch » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:05 pm

Here's the weather radar for 3pm, when they were refuelling:

Image

Cranbrook is just north of that red return in the bottom-right corner, I think. That line of weather is moving directly north. From what I can see, the only thunderstorm in the entire region was the one at Cranbrook just after they were refuelling. Even if they didn't hit that thunderstorm, they probably would have had to fly through some nasty weather.
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freakonature
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#27 Post by freakonature » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:57 pm

Sounds like they are hunting an elt.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#28 Post by cncpc » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Golf course guy at Crawford Bay says sunshine all afternoon, not much wind, no thunderstorms in daylight hours.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#29 Post by Mick G » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:47 pm

This whole thing us starting to sound likr Steve Fosset
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#30 Post by anofly » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:14 pm

Folks,flying light aircraft. If the weather is not perfect in the mountains, you fly the "marked vfr routes" that mostly follow the valleys and have airports along them, and a big highway. If its bad ahead, you fly back to the last airport and wait, and you dont get yourself in to where there is no back door. If you think you might lose your back door, you dont move. IF you do move, treat the trip like a bunch of hops, airport to airport. you dont go gps direct in challenging weather and start weaving and ducking, or you may boldly end up doing what many before you have done.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#31 Post by cpknight » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:25 pm

+1 anofly
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#32 Post by GyvAir » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:38 pm

Every time I read about cases like this, I wonder why use of such readily available technology such as the Spot Tracker is not the norm, if not required for flights over terrain such as this.
The pure economics of it would probably justify mandating wider spread use of them, never mind the potential lives saved and reduction in suffering of those involved and their families.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#33 Post by CpnCrunch » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:53 pm

cncpc wrote:Golf course guy at Crawford Bay says sunshine all afternoon, not much wind, no thunderstorms in daylight hours.
Sure he's talking about Thursday? Radar seems to show rainshowers all afternoon there.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#34 Post by cncpc » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:45 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
cncpc wrote:Golf course guy at Crawford Bay says sunshine all afternoon, not much wind, no thunderstorms in daylight hours.
Sure he's talking about Thursday? Radar seems to show rainshowers all afternoon there.
Yes, but I thought that odd too. We discussed the missing aircraft.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#35 Post by cncpc » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:47 pm

GyvAir wrote:Every time I read about cases like this, I wonder why use of such readily available technology such as the Spot Tracker is not the norm, if not required for flights over terrain such as this.
The pure economics of it would probably justify mandating wider spread use of them, never mind the potential lives saved and reduction in suffering of those involved and their families.
I'm surprised every flight school doesn't use them, especially for renters.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#36 Post by trey kule » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:47 pm

Folks,flying light aircraft. If the weather is not perfect in the mountains, you fly the "marked vfr routes" that mostly follow the valleys and have airports along them, and a big highway. If its bad ahead, you fly back to the last airport and wait, and you dont get yourself in to where there is no back door. If you think you might lose your back door, you dont move. IF you do move, treat the trip like a bunch of hops, airport to airport. you dont go gps direct in challenging weather and start weaving and ducking, or you may boldly end up doing what many before you have done.
Oh, thank you, thank you, for sharing such wisdom with us. It is not only totaly relevant, but I am quite certain you have saved countless pilots from certain death in the mountains.
Your advice is textbok perfect and not tainted in the least by experience. We can all learn better that way..

And to those that posted the weather or got updates from a golf course guy. All relevant. It has been a great learning experience.
No idle gossip here about the unfortunate incident two people mightt well have encountered. It is all about posting advice and speculating. But respectfully, of course, and only so we can learn from it. This type of situation has never happened before so it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to learn from it..
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#37 Post by cncpc » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:23 pm

From military a couple of days ago...

A CP-140 Aurora has also conducted a sensory sweep of the area to search for any signals, but that hasn’t turned up anything. A 406 beacon signal was reported, however, it is very weak and the military can’t direction-find it, Szkwarek said.

“It could be a red herring at this point, but we’re leaving no stone unturned on that and if we pick up on a harder ping, then we will absolutely prosecute it,” he added.


Anyone know what kind of signal would come with the antennae busted off?
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#38 Post by CpnCrunch » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:26 pm

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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#39 Post by AirFrame » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:37 am

cncpc wrote:From military a couple of days ago...

A CP-140 Aurora has also conducted a sensory sweep of the area to search for any signals, but that hasn’t turned up anything. A 406 beacon signal was reported, however, it is very weak and the military can’t direction-find it, Szkwarek said.


Yet again showing that the 406 is not a lot better than the 121.5 it replaced. I thought one of the benefits of the 406 was that a single ping would give location?
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#40 Post by bigsky » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:53 am

I thought the Americans had AWAC's patrollng 24/7'along the border..one would think that they
would have tracked this aircraft on departure from Cranbrook..
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#41 Post by groundpilot » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:29 am

AirFrame wrote:
cncpc wrote:From military a couple of days ago...

A CP-140 Aurora has also conducted a sensory sweep of the area to search for any signals, but that hasn’t turned up anything. A 406 beacon signal was reported, however, it is very weak and the military can’t direction-find it, Szkwarek said.


Yet again showing that the 406 is not a lot better than the 121.5 it replaced. I thought one of the benefits of the 406 was that a single ping would give location?


Almost every 406 Beacon I've homed also had 121.5 & 243.0 paired with it...you literally had to choose which one you wanted to home...
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#42 Post by photofly » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:43 am

AirFrame wrote:
cncpc wrote:From military a couple of days ago...

A CP-140 Aurora has also conducted a sensory sweep of the area to search for any signals, but that hasn’t turned up anything. A 406 beacon signal was reported, however, it is very weak and the military can’t direction-find it, Szkwarek said.


Yet again showing that the 406 is not a lot better than the 121.5 it replaced. I thought one of the benefits of the 406 was that a single ping would give location?


If a 406 ELT has either an attached or built-in GPS (neither of which is mandatory) - and the GPS can get a fix, and if its antenna is adequately placed to get a signal to a geostationary satellite, then a single ping will give a location. Otherwise it needs an overhead pass by one of the LEO satellites, which can take up to an hour.
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Last edited by photofly on Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#43 Post by helione » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:49 am

well it seems strange and if I'm wrong but this pilot just got his licence and the ink hasn't had time to dry yet and then making a cross the rocks hop in perhaps iffy weather, I believe that plane was a rental so how does that work ? I truly hope they will be found safe and sound
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#44 Post by lhalliday » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:21 am

cncpc wrote:
GyvAir wrote:Every time I read about cases like this, I wonder why use of such readily available technology such as the Spot Tracker is not the norm, if not required for flights over terrain such as this.
The pure economics of it would probably justify mandating wider spread use of them, never mind the potential lives saved and reduction in suffering of those involved and their families.
I'm surprised every flight school doesn't use them, especially for renters.
This is SOP for the folks who taught me to fly (Langley Flying School), and for people I rented planes from later (Pacific Flying Club).

Now that I have my own plane I fly wth a PLB on all cross-country flights. The only message it sends is HELP, but that's all it needs to do. I've also done mountain flying training in B.C. and California.

...laura
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#45 Post by cncpc » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:58 pm

bigsky wrote:I thought the Americans had AWAC's patrollng 24/7'along the border..one would think that they
would have tracked this aircraft on departure from Cranbrook..
They don't have AWACS on the border. I believe that the border patrol people use Citations or PC12s with mostly infra red and optical gear.

There was a 172 with pilot only on board that went missing between Revelstoke and Nanaimo, or thereabouts, a few years back. It was last seen by radar near Lytton at 5000 feet or so. Too low to be seen by the radar head up on the Fly Hills there just west of Salmon Arm. The word came out that the hit came from a US border patrol Citation running parallel just below the line, and only briefly, I suppose when the line of sight up the canyon was briefly possible.

I don't think AWACS are used for regular surveillance. Drones may still be used. People seriously up to no good aren't going to be stopped by AWACS. Or drones.

Not much being said about after takeoff coms with this aircraft. Not even if they cleared the zone west out of Cranbrook.
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#46 Post by Woxof38 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:18 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.4168540

Search called off for missing plane, passengers in B.C.
Alex Simons and Sidney Robillard have been missing since June 8
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Re: Warrior with 2 on board fails to arrive in Kamloops

#47 Post by oldncold » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:31 am

mooney from last year was found this week. l lets see if they can find this soon too. been over a year .
t la
there were reports of the plane, last heard over the top end of Kootenay lake ,Sandon, trout lake.If Correct That is some of the steepest and heavily forested terrain in bc , the track makes sense from the cyxc to cyka . keep your eyes peeled and maybe we can give some closure to the family.
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