It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

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pelmet
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It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#1 Post by pelmet » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:32 pm

"C-FBKP, the Bravo #1 Aerial Applications Ltd. Schweizer G-164B (Agcat), had departed the company airstrip to conduct agricultural application operations in the vicinity of Irma, AB. After take-off, power was reduced to climb power and 110 mph IAS was established for the climb to 1000 feet AGL. Just prior to reaching 1000 feet, the pilot observed the airspeed decreasing. Power was increased with no change in the airspeed; there were no observed issues with the engine (Pratt and Whitney USA R1340-AN1).The aircraft was maneuvered to land back at the airstrip on the reciprocal runway. At 1.5 mile final, the aircraft was high and fast and a road was selected to land on instead of the airstrip. During the final turn the aircraft caught the left wing tip in a canola crop. The aircraft landed hard and nosed over. A post-impact fire started within seconds of the aircraft coming to rest. Witnesses helped the pilot out of the aircraft prior to a post-impact fire that destroyed the entire aircraft."


"C-FFIS, a privately registered Piper PA-12, was on a local pleasure flight which originated from a private airstrip near Eriksdale, MB. On the way back to the airstrip, the pilot felt nauseous and made a precautionary landing in pasture approximately 8 nm north of Erickson. On landing, a landing gear leg struck a rock. The propeller, engine cowling, and fuselage were damaged. There
were no injuries."
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#2 Post by pelmet » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:48 pm

This one is more understandable for getting on the ground ASAP...

"C-FAFH, a Fighter Escort Wings 2/3rd scale P-51 Mustang homebuilt, was conducting a local test flight from Muskoka, Ontario (CYQA). At 5500 feet, the engine began to run very roughly and started to vibrate. The aircraft is equipped with a Chevrolet ZZ3 liquid cooled V8 and a Cam-Fire Camdrive 500 Propeller Speed Reduction Unit (PSRU). The pilot declared an emergency and executed a rapid descent with the engine at idle power towards CYQA for an emergency landing.

During the descent the pilot noticed smoke from the engine. During the landing sequence, the retractable landing gear was extended and the gear indication showed both green and red lights for the main landing gear. The pilot elected to continue the landing with the main gear lights indicating red due to the engine failure and smoke. Upon touchdown of RWY 36 at CYQA the main gear collapsed and the aircraft slid on the belly scoop for approximately 800 feet before coming to rest on the runway. The pilot was uninjured. The aircraft suffered damage to its belly, propeller and under wing pitot tube. Maintenance personnel found that an idler pulley shaft in the PSRU had moved and dislodged an oil seal allowing oil escape and contaminate the ignition system and leak onto the hot exhaust manifolds causing smoke. The cause of the main gear collapse is being investigated."
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#3 Post by HiFlyChick » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:55 pm

pelmet wrote:"C-FFIS, a privately registered Piper PA-12, was on a local pleasure flight which originated from a private airstrip near Eriksdale, MB. On the way back to the airstrip, the pilot felt nauseous and made a precautionary landing in pasture approximately 8 nm north of Erickson. On landing, a landing gear leg struck a rock. The propeller, engine cowling, and fuselage were damaged. There were no injuries."
They didn't really say what happened to the pilot afterwards, though. Seems to me I recall hearing about a pilot once that started feeling really bad and managed to get it on the ground safely (although in that case the plane was alright). Turned out he was having a stroke, and died shortly after landing. Being nauseous can just mean you're going to throw up, but it's also one of the warning signs of a heart attack. It sucks that the plane was damaged so badly, but without knowing the shape of the pilot afterwards, you can't really decide if it was worth it. If he was having some kind of medical emergency that would've rendered him unable to fly, getting it on the ground would really be the best option....
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#4 Post by pelmet » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:16 am

HiFlyChick wrote:
pelmet wrote:"C-FFIS, a privately registered Piper PA-12, was on a local pleasure flight which originated from a private airstrip near Eriksdale, MB. On the way back to the airstrip, the pilot felt nauseous and made a precautionary landing in pasture approximately 8 nm north of Erickson. On landing, a landing gear leg struck a rock. The propeller, engine cowling, and fuselage were damaged. There were no injuries."
They didn't really say what happened to the pilot afterwards, though. Seems to me I recall hearing about a pilot once that started feeling really bad and managed to get it on the ground safely (although in that case the plane was alright). Turned out he was having a stroke, and died shortly after landing. Being nauseous can just mean you're going to throw up, but it's also one of the warning signs of a heart attack. It sucks that the plane was damaged so badly, but without knowing the shape of the pilot afterwards, you can't really decide if it was worth it. If he was having some kind of medical emergency that would've rendered him unable to fly, getting it on the ground would really be the best option....
These things are possible.

But seriously, how many of us have called 911 for feeling nausea. And if you have, what percentage of the time. Landing in the field was basically the equivalent of that. Now, maybe it was a serious enough case for this particular flight as we don't know how bad the situation was and food poisoning can be near incapacitating. But I would be willing to bet that there was no stroke or heart attack that day. Except by the owner if this person was borrowing his aircraft.
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#5 Post by photofly » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:45 am

My Uncle came down with what he thought was just a bad case of indigestion after a visit to a restaurant on holiday, many years ago. It got worse and worse, until eventually we called for an ambulance. It was actually a massive coronary, and he was in hospital for a month before he was strong enough to go home. It's hard to tell where things are going, sometimes.
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#6 Post by pelmet » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:42 am

As I said, these things are possible. We can always find an example somewhere.

I have had nausea perhaps 50 times in my life, no heart attacks or strokes yet. What is your score?
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#7 Post by HiFlyChick » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:25 pm

I guess I'm just thinking along the lines that it must have been something serious because I can't fathom doing that for anything less. The alternative is that the pilot has never walked one of those fields that look so great from the air, and didn't know that significant holes and ruts are pretty much invisible until you're really low (and at flying speed, maybe you can't tell even then).
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#8 Post by GyvAir » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:54 pm

pelmet wrote:As I said, these things are possible. We can always find an example somewhere.

I have had nausea perhaps 50 times in my life, no heart attacks or strokes yet. What is your score?
My score is probably about the same, give or take. However on a couple occasions, I've been so completely overcome by nausea that I wouldn’t want to be in control of any type of vehicle or machinery at the time. (I’m not counting nausea related to youthful abuse of alcohol here, either. :) ) Maybe not so bad though, that being in cruise and trimmed, I wouldn’t be able to ride it out, hopefully with a good container at hand. But if the feeling came on like that when hands and eyes were required, I’m not sure what would happen.
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#9 Post by pelmet » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:13 pm

GyvAir wrote:
pelmet wrote:As I said, these things are possible. We can always find an example somewhere.

I have had nausea perhaps 50 times in my life, no heart attacks or strokes yet. What is your score?
However on a couple occasions, I've been so completely overcome by nausea that I wouldn’t want to be in control of any type of vehicle or machinery at the time. Maybe not so bad though, that being in cruise and trimmed, I wouldn’t be able to ride it out, hopefully with a good container at hand. But if the feeling came on like that when hands and eyes were required, I’m not sure what would happen.
I certainly don't have the answers for all the situations that are possible, but if overwhelmed by nausea...I'm not sure that I would want to be trying a landing at that particular time. Of course things could be at an earlier state and getting worse. However, the unappealing idea of a bad case scenario...puking all over floor, no matter how nice the carpet might be the best option.
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#10 Post by GyvAir » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:42 pm

GyvAir wrote:puking all over floor, no matter how nice the carpet might be the best option.
It's possible that option had already been exercised. I’ve witnessed a couple occasions where an aircraft will land and taxi as fast as possible (at an airport) to the closest possible safe place to shut down, throw the doors open and all occupants jump out, due to some horrific smelling mess inside..
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#11 Post by photofly » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:57 pm

If you still have some choice about where to puke, you're not nauseous.
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#12 Post by pelmet » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:58 pm

photofly wrote:If you still have some choice about where to puke, you're not nauseous.
??????

GyvAir wrote:
GyvAir wrote:puking all over floor, no matter how nice the carpet might be the best option.
It's possible that option had already been exercised.
It's possible, just like a heart attack or stroke are possible.
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Re: It not always best to get on the ground ASAP

#13 Post by RatherBeFlying » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:54 pm

Some glider pilots have a hard time taming the tummy butterflies in rough thermals, especially in the spring, and sometimes have to use a relief bag for a sick bag.

You feel better afterwards, but I can't look snack mixtures containing peanuts in the eye anymore.
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