When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
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When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
During the slowest flight contest in Alaska and you are half a knot above the stall speed.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWrG3_YqGZc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWrG3_YqGZc
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Looks like the component at first was a very light headwind straight-on down the runway but then it moves over to the right Xwind and increases during that event.
The engine power can be heard to vary, in keeping slow-as-possible (video-version with sound).
The moment comes where the gust passes and power immediately increased for airspeed while drifting/drifted left .. so lets up on right rudder for show positioning (keeping straight). Unfortunately heavier right rudder had to remain applied to counter left roll tendency of increased propwash of the added power after the gust has passsed, esp when that slow. The new right crosswind strength/angle likely not expected, .. where-in is tricked for just-a-sec by the shear's power requirement, ie lets up inadvertantly on right rudder to stay course in a trickier process of keeping it stable.
The engine power can be heard to vary, in keeping slow-as-possible (video-version with sound).
The moment comes where the gust passes and power immediately increased for airspeed while drifting/drifted left .. so lets up on right rudder for show positioning (keeping straight). Unfortunately heavier right rudder had to remain applied to counter left roll tendency of increased propwash of the added power after the gust has passsed, esp when that slow. The new right crosswind strength/angle likely not expected, .. where-in is tricked for just-a-sec by the shear's power requirement, ie lets up inadvertantly on right rudder to stay course in a trickier process of keeping it stable.
Last edited by pdw on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
KAKTALKE2 wx-station data shows village component (just off to the left of rwy1) every 5-6 minutes. The sound video captures ongoing power adjustment in yawing to the right (cauing reduction of right rudder when needs it most ?) just before "left wing stalls"(ASN).
Occurrance 12:30pm May21 runway one 11M/ 27T.
12:23pm: NE/05T 14.8kph gusting 15.8kph
12:29pm: ENE 6.4kph gusting 11.9kph
NNW 3-5kts (40deg left) before "12:23" and after 12:29 ESE 2kts / right 90deg (TALKE2 wx-station data). At half past the hour, the incident is 1/2way between the Airport's noon/hourly metar 05/8kts and 0000kts at 1pm (airport wx-station located on east side of rwy1). The town's wx-station is very close to this action, only a mile off the left wingtip (west of the runway) in the video.
When looking at it with the perspective of "the straw that broke the camels back" ("When can a 1 knot windhear lead to disaster?"), here the ENE 6.4kph gusting 11.9kph (gusting 3-4kts) is a 30-40deg right crosswind component approaching 12:30pm. Less right-rudder suddenly needed to stay straight in power decrease (during the increasing Xwind/IAS) .. and next, power again added for low airspeed right after .. with abscence of the right rudder because right there wants to aim the nose a bit left to stay on centreline; ie: in the video no right rudder-deflection noticeable at all right there, even as the left wing slowly starts the drop ..
Occurrance 12:30pm May21 runway one 11M/ 27T.
12:23pm: NE/05T 14.8kph gusting 15.8kph
12:29pm: ENE 6.4kph gusting 11.9kph
NNW 3-5kts (40deg left) before "12:23" and after 12:29 ESE 2kts / right 90deg (TALKE2 wx-station data). At half past the hour, the incident is 1/2way between the Airport's noon/hourly metar 05/8kts and 0000kts at 1pm (airport wx-station located on east side of rwy1). The town's wx-station is very close to this action, only a mile off the left wingtip (west of the runway) in the video.
When looking at it with the perspective of "the straw that broke the camels back" ("When can a 1 knot windhear lead to disaster?"), here the ENE 6.4kph gusting 11.9kph (gusting 3-4kts) is a 30-40deg right crosswind component approaching 12:30pm. Less right-rudder suddenly needed to stay straight in power decrease (during the increasing Xwind/IAS) .. and next, power again added for low airspeed right after .. with abscence of the right rudder because right there wants to aim the nose a bit left to stay on centreline; ie: in the video no right rudder-deflection noticeable at all right there, even as the left wing slowly starts the drop ..
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Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
I will not be contributing to the “go fund me” account to help Tom rebuild his plane. A “slowness” contest is stupid. It’s like having a contest to see how close you can hold your nose to a running bandsaw. There is a totally predictable limit with a totally predictable outcome. I guess he won the contest, because clearly you can’t go any slower than he just did. At least, not in that kind of plane. Congratulations Tom!
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
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Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Go Fund me accounts are seen for everything these days.
Pay for you own bloody hobby, dude.
Pay for you own bloody hobby, dude.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Looks like might have value for lesson material.
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Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Let's wait for the report..
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Except there isn't a predictable limit. It's a highly modified airplane and there are probably gains (losses?) still to be had by changing more stuff, just how his stall speed is already appreciably lower than a stock Super Cub from which his plane is based. Different airfoil, reprofiled slats, VGs, thrust line, strip weight, add power, or whatever. Everything gets tricky right at the bleeding edge of what's possible, and competition breeds improvement.Meatservo wrote:A “slowness” contest is stupid. There is a totally predictable limit with a totally predictable outcome. I guess he won the contest, because clearly you can’t go any slower than he just did. At least, not in that kind of plane.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Looks like some value as lesson material. Ailerons are useful when not yet stalled, yet concentrating on success in the event likely interferes with the quick reaction to neutral when it dipped below.
The way it spun around the left wingtip .. is something like the Cessna that spun left around the tree in Plainville.
The way it spun around the left wingtip .. is something like the Cessna that spun left around the tree in Plainville.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Does that mean he didn't have insurance?
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
So what? So the guy should do a Go Fund me account like someone who lost their house?digits_ wrote:Does that mean he didn't have insurance?
Not other people's problem you wrecked your plane.
Sheesh...............
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Not at all. He can do what he wants, but I find a go fund account for this a bit weird as well. Makes me wonder if he had insurance. If you do fairly high risk flying, like he does, you'd think he'd have insurance. If he does have it, it makes the go fund me account even more sour. If he doesn't have insurance, well.... then other people shouldn't pay for you trying to save a dollar.rookiepilot wrote:So what? So the guy should do a Go Fund me account like someone who lost their house?digits_ wrote:Does that mean he didn't have insurance?
Not other people's problem you wrecked your plane.
Sheesh...............
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
What does he pay his A/P to fix it ? $15.00/Hr. ? What an asshole !!
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Flying that angle of attack 10 feet above ground was asking for trouble regardless of anything.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
I'd expect that the insurance company would have exclusions for "competition flying".
If a pilot owner wishes to commit his aircraft to high risk, I guess it's their right - I won't be chipping in. I'd rather insure, and then fly within the terms of the insurance.
Yes, just a couple of knots of breeze can have a big effect. I was picking vertically out of a treed confined area in the MD500. My colleague suggested I turn around to depart west, but I had noticed a very slight whisp of breeze from the east. I allowed the rotor to catch that breeze as I topped the trees. The helicopter picked up a little, and the climb away was confident. If I'd gone west, I would have been trying to power through a downwind departure - however slight.
If a pilot owner wishes to commit his aircraft to high risk, I guess it's their right - I won't be chipping in. I'd rather insure, and then fly within the terms of the insurance.
Yes, just a couple of knots of breeze can have a big effect. I was picking vertically out of a treed confined area in the MD500. My colleague suggested I turn around to depart west, but I had noticed a very slight whisp of breeze from the east. I allowed the rotor to catch that breeze as I topped the trees. The helicopter picked up a little, and the climb away was confident. If I'd gone west, I would have been trying to power through a downwind departure - however slight.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
From the video description:digits_ wrote:Not at all. He can do what he wants, but I find a go fund account for this a bit weird as well. Makes me wonder if he had insurance. If you do fairly high risk flying, like he does, you'd think he'd have insurance. If he does have it, it makes the go fund me account even more sour. If he doesn't have insurance, well.... then other people shouldn't pay for you trying to save a dollar.rookiepilot wrote:So what? So the guy should do a Go Fund me account like someone who lost their house?digits_ wrote:Does that mean he didn't have insurance?
Not other people's problem you wrecked your plane.
Sheesh...............
Tom walked away uninjured, but his SQ2 was not so lucky. To make matters worse, the insurance application for the SQ2 was still at home sitting on his coffee table. Tom is a great guy who loves Alaska and aviation.
Many people at the Fly In asked if there was any way they could help Tom out. As a result, we have started a GoFundMe campaign for him. Tom gave his consent, but is in no way asking for a handout or contribution. He is a real Alaskan Bush Pilot and will rebuild his SQ2 regardless. For those of you who would like to help him out, visit the GoFundMe page and follow his progress.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
[DELETED - Insurance not required, sorry!]
Anyway, good for him if people want to help him.
Anyway, good for him if people want to help him.
Last edited by digits_ on Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
As I see it if it was a contest to see who could fly the slowest he was a loser because he did not complete the flight.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Indeed. I'm not sure what to make of a contest where crashing and rendering your aircraft un-airworthy doesn't disqualify you from winning.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: When can a 1 knot windshear lead to disaster?
Amazing what the experts here can come up with. A homebuilder who pays AMEs $15 an hour to fix the plane he built ...
And he's flying ILLEGALLY Why don't you tell us what the aircraft insurance requirements are in Alaska digits_?
And he's flying ILLEGALLY Why don't you tell us what the aircraft insurance requirements are in Alaska digits_?