Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

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Stretcher
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Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Stretcher »

Flew into Thompson early Friday morning on a Medevac and heard someone talking on the radio about a metro going off the runway the night before. Anyone have any details?
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switchflicker
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by switchflicker »

Perimeter Aviation Swearingen SA-227-AC, registration C-FLRY performing positioning flight PAG-959 from Gods River,MB to Thompson,MB (Canada) with 2 crew, was descending towards Thompson about 40nm from the aerodrome when the crew advised they had a low oil indication for one of their engines (TPE331) and might need to shut it down. The aircraft continued to Thompson but veered off the runway at about 19:07L (00:07Z Nov 3rd). The crew declared Mayday and evacuated the aircraft. Both crew were taken to a hospital with minor injuries, the aircraft sustained substantial damage.

The Canadian TSB dispatched investigators on site and opened an investigation. The regional manager reported the aircraft went off the runway (runway excursion) and sustained damage to gear, belly and a propeller.

NAV Canada repored the runway needed to be closed due to the disabled aircraft and fuel on the runway.

Metars:
CYTH 030200Z 33003KT 15SM -SN BKN013 OVC033 M20/M22 A3041 RMK SC6SC2 SLP328=
CYTH 030100Z 35003KT 15SM -SN FEW013 BKN033 M19/M22 A3040 RMK SC2SC4 SLP325=
CYTH 030000Z 32005KT 15SM -SN BKN037 M18/M21 A3040 RMK SC6 SLP323=
CYTH 022300Z 33005KT 15SM -SN BKN034 M17/M21 A3039 RMK SC6 SLP320=
CYTH 022200Z 35006KT 15SM -SN BKN035 M17/M21 A3037 RMK SC6 SLP315=
CYTH 022100Z 35004KT 320V020 15SM -SN OVC035 M16/M20 A3037 RMK SC8 SLP314=
CYTH 022000Z 34005KT 15SM -SN BKN030 OVC037 M17/M21 A3037 RMK SC5SC3 SLP313=
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Victory
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Victory »

I wonder if this like that King Air crash in Vancouver with the loose oil cap.
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by oldtimer »

No oil cap per say on a Metro 3. Metro 2, yes but 3, no. Sight gauge with a ball floating in a small window. Open a small flap on the engine nacelle.
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Stretcher
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Stretcher »

I met up for coffee with one of their metro captains last night and he mentioned that the Metro was on it's way back to Thompson empty due to a hydraulic issue. The flight was done with the gear down and closer to Thompson one of the engines oil pressure started to fluctuate. Maintenance advised them to keep the engine running and the engine failed short final, new Captain just out of line indoc.
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nwopilot
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by nwopilot »

Stretcher wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:47 am I met up for coffee with one of their metro captains last night and he mentioned that the Metro was on it's way back to Thompson empty due to a hydraulic issue. The flight was done with the gear down and closer to Thompson one of the engines oil pressure started to fluctuate. Maintenance advised them to keep the engine running and the engine failed short final, new Captain just out of line indoc.
Wow that is a very unfortunate set of circumstances. Engine failure on short final can turn ugly very quickly. Glad to hear everyone made it out ok!!
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by goingnowherefast »

I'm genuinely curious. Would the Metro be able to maintain altitude on one engine with the gear extended?
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Stretcher
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Stretcher »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:49 am I'm genuinely curious. Would the Metro be able to maintain altitude on one engine with the gear extended?
If what I was told is 100 % true, the first thing I thought of was Bearskin in Red Lake and how that played out. Time will tell, it sounds like these guys were handed some bad cards to deal with.
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Victory »

I don't think it would be certified if it couldn't maintain altitude on one engine. It wouldn't be able to do a V1 cut.
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Cat Driver »

Why did they not fix it in Thompson rather than fly it with the gear down?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by goingnowherefast »

Cat, reading comprehension! It was broken in Gods River and ferrying back to Thompson to get fixed.

I was thinking of the Bearskin crash and also the conditions during the 1st segment (positive rate required with gear down). They're also old, the rigging could be a bit off, rough paint, prop filed a few too many times, etc. Not exactly in the same condition as the flight test aircraft. Hence why I asked.
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Cat Driver »

Cat, reading comprehension! It was broken in Gods River and ferrying back to Thompson to get fixed
My apology for not reading all the info available..

I obviously focused on one factor, which was why did they not get it fixed where it was determined to need fixing rather than attempt a ferry flight with the intention of flying with the gear down.

I assume it was done with a ferry permit from TC?

Personally I would not accept such a flight in case something else might go wrong such as losing power on one of the engines.

But that could't happen could it.
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by ogc »

Victory wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:40 pm I don't think it would be certified if it couldn't maintain altitude on one engine. It wouldn't be able to do a V1 cut.
Single engine sure I know they can easily fly... single engine gear down is another scenario.
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switchflicker
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by switchflicker »

I assume it was done with a ferry permit from TC?

I don't think Perimeter and most larger AMOs need to involve TC for a simple ferry permit.

Personally I would not accept such a flight in case something else might go wrong such as losing power on one of the engines.

That's kind of sad because there are so many fixed gear aircraft in commercial service. Of course you should consider an engine failure enroute. IF the gear was indeed fixed down, and we don't know if it was, then you might keep the gross weight very light and/or treat it like a single engine. Maybe the crew did this. Most of us have flown fixed gear single engine aircraft at one time or another. Even the disgusting tricycle gear types.

What might throw you off in this case is if the sick engine went into NTS right in the flare. I wonder if they considered pulling the Stop and Feather on final approach. Hmmmm
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Wouldn’t be flying any twin gear down IF it won’t come up. End of story.
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Cat Driver »

Wouldn’t be flying any twin gear down IF it won’t come up. End of story.
Why would anyone even consider it?
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by FurHat »

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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by bobcaygeon »

An empty Metro 3 at -15C would definitely maintain on one engine.
I’ve got a 1000 hrs in a twin otter with -20’s on floats loaded to the nuts with lots of time where landing on water isn’t an option. I’ll take the flight in the empty Metro thanks.
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by Cat Driver »

There is a big difference between an Islander and most other twin engine airplanes.

The Islander is certified as a fixed gear airplane whereas most other twin engine airplanes are retractable gear machines.

Here is a question.

If a Metro has a gear problem that prevents the gear from being retracted after take off is the C of A valid in that condition?
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Re: Perimeter off the runway in Thompson

Post by dogfood »

A metro will fly perfectly fine on one engine and the gear down when it's empty which it was. Loaded be a different story specially if it was hot
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