DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

Message
Author
CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2865
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#26 Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:46 pm

"The company will not fly its remaining De Havilland Beaver DHC-2 aircraft — the type of plane involved in the crash — ahead of the release of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau's preliminary factual report, due by the end of the month."

Sounds like the change in procedures is just not using the Beaver until the prelim report is out. What did the witnesses see that wasn't reported in the news?
---------- ADS -----------
  

sportingrifle
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:29 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#27 Post by sportingrifle » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:25 pm

The Beaver that crashed at Hawkesbury impacted the water a relatively high speed (for a Beaver) as evidenced by the damage to the floats, forward fuselage, and wings. At the time it was apparently fitted with dual controls. Sydney Seaplanes are currently (as of last week) operating all flights with 2 pilots. I am not speculating on the cause, done if this could be a knee jerk response from the regulator, CASA. But there seemed to be little interest in the stall behaviour of the airplane with regards to the accident.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2865
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#28 Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:56 pm

sportingrifle wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:25 pm
The Beaver that crashed at Hawkesbury impacted the water a relatively high speed (for a Beaver) as evidenced by the damage to the floats, forward fuselage, and wings. At the time it was apparently fitted with dual controls. Sydney Seaplanes are currently (as of last week) operating all flights with 2 pilots. I am not speculating on the cause, done if this could be a knee jerk response from the regulator, CASA. But there seemed to be little interest in the stall behaviour of the airplane with regards to the accident.
Stall seems consistent with everything you are saying, and they were apparently in a controlled, steep turn when it suddenly dropped.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Cliff Jumper
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:22 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#29 Post by Cliff Jumper » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:04 pm

sportingrifle wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:25 pm
The Beaver that crashed at Hawkesbury impacted the water a relatively high speed (for a Beaver) as evidenced by the damage to the floats, forward fuselage, and wings.
Have you seen the damage caused to beavers from previous stall accidents into water?
---------- ADS -----------
  

sportingrifle
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:29 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#30 Post by sportingrifle » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:27 pm

I have only seen a few such as the one at Saturna and the one in Vanderhoof. Not all that many but none looked as demolished as the one in the Oz accident. In the Oz accident, the wings and floats were torn off the airplane at impact The birdcage was severely bent, the wingtip tanks were torn off the wings, and the front of the floats ahead of the spreader bars were gone - as in caved in and then separated from the rest of the floats . The engine was making lots of power. Anyway, I am no accident investigator but was talking to a couple of people who were familiar with the investigation. At that point, the investigation was not headed in that direction. I guess we will know in a month or so. Very sad whatever happened.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2865
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#31 Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:05 pm

Here's a picture of the l'Eau Clair Lake crash:

Image

I don't know how high the Saturna Beaver got. The accident report said it failed to climb after takeoff, then stalled in a turn. Perhaps it was just a few hundred feet.
---------- ADS -----------
  

sportingrifle
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:29 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#32 Post by sportingrifle » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:16 pm

Interesting and sad. Very different damage to the airplane in Oz. I can't easily post pics with my phone but the media had pics of the salvage. As I said, the front of the floats are just missing, the wings separated, both windshields missing, and to my untrained eye, the impact looked pretty symmetrical. I also can't help but think that a guy with 5000 hours on type could probably recover from a stall from 500'. Anyway, time will tell. Until autopsies are completed and control continuety confirmed, to me it is just speculation. And sad.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2865
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#33 Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:41 pm

sportingrifle wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:16 pm
Interesting and sad. Very different damage to the airplane in Oz. I can't easily post pics with my phone but the media had pics of the salvage. As I said, the front of the floats are just missing, the wings separated, both windshields missing, and to my untrained eye, the impact looked pretty symmetrical. I also can't help but think that a guy with 5000 hours on type could probably recover from a stall from 500'. Anyway, time will tell. Until autopsies are completed and control continuety confirmed, to me it is just speculation. And sad.
That pic was a stall from 50 feet, which is pretty low. Do we know what height the Sydney floatplane was at? You would think 500ft would be sufficient to recover. But who practices spins at 500ft? I'd like to think I'd do it correctly, but who knows whether I would instinctively try to pull the nose up.
---------- ADS -----------
  

sportingrifle
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:29 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#34 Post by sportingrifle » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:59 pm

Video taken just before the accident showed it climbing out quite high, estimated 400-500'. Maintenance guy I talked to said the engine was producing lots of power on impact. Those are the only two things known for certain at this point.

Cheers Sportingrifle.
---------- ADS -----------
  

bigsky
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:34 am
Location: Alberta

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#35 Post by bigsky » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:46 am

A preliminary accident reportnhas been issued.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/in ... -2017-118/
---------- ADS -----------
  
There is no substitute for BIG JUGS!!

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2865
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#36 Post by CpnCrunch » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:39 am

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... rator-says

It seems they weren't authorized to takeoff into the bay, but some pilots did it anyway. This time it didn't work due to the tailwind and high load.
---------- ADS -----------
  

J31
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:21 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#37 Post by J31 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:25 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:39 am
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... rator-says

It seems they weren't authorized to takeoff into the bay, but some pilots did it anyway. This time it didn't work due to the tailwind and high load.
Do you have some other source? I do not see in this article saying "some" pilots flew up Jerusalem Bay towards rising terrain. It does not look like a great idea unless you had lots of altitude much less shortly after takeoff.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2865
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#38 Post by CpnCrunch » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm

J31 wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:25 pm


Do you have some other source? I do not see in this article saying "some" pilots flew up Jerusalem Bay towards rising terrain. It does not look like a great idea unless you had lots of altitude much less shortly after takeoff.
It says in the Guardian article.
---------- ADS -----------
  

J31
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:21 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#39 Post by J31 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:47 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:28 pm
J31 wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:25 pm


Do you have some other source? I do not see in this article saying "some" pilots flew up Jerusalem Bay towards rising terrain. It does not look like a great idea unless you had lots of altitude much less shortly after takeoff.
It says in the Guardian article.
My bad. I did not see the last few paragraphs... :oops:
---------- ADS -----------
  

beaverbob
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:34 pm
Location: BC

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#40 Post by beaverbob » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:15 am

I hate to bring this accident to the front again, but Global news said this morning that the pilot may have been knocked unconscious by a passenger. That would change the dynamics of this accident . Anyone else seen this?

Bob
---------- ADS -----------
  

7ECA
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#41 Post by 7ECA » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:44 am

Articles online purport some Aussie publication saying the front pax may have hit the pilot with his elbow while taking photos. Unless you really crack someone, a bump with an elbow shouldn't be anywhere near enough to incapacitate. Seems like a reach...

Report is due out early 2019 from the ATSB.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Honour is a man's gift to himself ~Duke Elegant
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.

North Shore
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5279
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#42 Post by North Shore » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:03 am

MAybe not hard enough to incapacitate, but perhaps hard enough to cause a wince or startle reflex leading to a jerk on the controls at the wrong time?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?

Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.

CpnCrunch
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2865
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: DHC-2 Beaver accident Australia

#43 Post by CpnCrunch » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:21 am

It sounds like speculation at the moment:

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... 29b42ff01c

The plane actually flew a long way "off course" after turning left up Jerusalem Bay, and that long portion of controlled flight seems unlikely to have been caused by a passenger knocking out the pilot. Sounds like damage control from the new part-owner.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”