WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

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CanadianEh
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WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#1 Post by CanadianEh » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:15 pm

Details I have (not confirmed) is that a Sunwing 737 under tow hit a WJ 737 on the apron in YYZ and caused the APU to catch fire resulting in an evacuation for WJ. More to come I'm sure.
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FL410
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#2 Post by FL410 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:57 pm

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Victory
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#3 Post by Victory » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:27 pm

If Sunwing's APU was on fire why did WestJet evacuate? In case the plane beside them exploded or something?
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#4 Post by av8ts » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:40 pm

Victory wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:27 pm
If Sunwing's APU was on fire why did WestJet evacuate? In case the plane beside them exploded or something?
I’m going to guess yes
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#5 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:49 pm

Commanding an evacuation for fire on another aircraft? Hope nobody was injured.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#6 Post by nottellin » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:06 pm

Probably a pretty tough decision to make at the time and moment I am sure.. But they'd hang you out to dry if something happened to your plane and you didn't evacuate. Prob at the end of a long day as well just to compound the wtf is going on factor.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#7 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:11 pm

If there really was a fire hazard present, why did people evacuate TOWARD the fire in question?
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#8 Post by HansDietrich » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:15 pm

Now I don't want to guess, but I like to play this game:
(From what I heard:)
1. Westjet Flight was waiting for a gate
2. Sunwing plane was being pushed back (empty, no crew, no pax)

Causes: (*Disclamer: Personal sarcastic opinion*)
1. Sunwing ground workers / tow crew most likely a contracted, inexperienced, poorly paid average Joe that have no business being there.
2. "Cut costs, f*ck safety", the motto of the new age airline.
3. It'll take 180+ people to burn alive before TC does anything.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#9 Post by mantogasrsrwy » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:29 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:15 pm
Now I don't want to guess, but I like to play this game:
(From what I heard:)
1. Westjet Flight was waiting for a gate
2. Sunwing plane was being pushed back (empty, no crew, no pax)

Causes: (*Disclamer: Personal sarcastic opinion*)
1. Sunwing ground workers / tow crew most likely a contracted, inexperienced, poorly paid average Joe that have no business being there.
2. "Cut costs, f*ck safety", the motto of the new age airline.
3. It'll take 180+ people to burn alive before TC does anything.
No excess drama there.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#10 Post by HansDietrich » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:34 pm

mantogasrsrwy wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:29 pm
No excess drama there.
It was sarcasm with a lot of truth in there. If you've ever worked at YYZ, you'll see that the quality of the ramp crew has significantly decreased. Let me tell you what I've seen there in my years flying in and out of Pearson:

1. Tugs failing to give the right of way to aircraft coming into the gate
2. Failing equipment (old), such as baggage loaders, tugs, lav carts, heaters, etc.
3. Underpaid, understaffed and overworked employees
4. Employees not giving a ****. I've personally seen guys watching football games on their mobile phones while the jet was waiting to taxi into the gate. No joke!
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#11 Post by pilotbzh » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:06 pm

A bagage tug and 4 card almost ran into me at AK a few month ago....

As for this incident the sunwing Apu cut fire after hitting the WestJet wingtip... good call on the evac, WJ wing could have cut on fire
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/su ... -1.3747926
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#12 Post by mijbil » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:12 pm

I wonder if their tug drivers are also TFW's :wink:
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#13 Post by YVRLTN » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:13 pm

If WS was waiting for final marshaling into the gate, maybe the tug driver didnt realize he wasnt fully on stand and thought he had more space than he did and proceeded as if WS was further forward.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#14 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:20 pm

YVRLTN wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:13 pm
If WS was waiting for final marshaling into the gate, maybe the tug driver didnt realize he wasnt fully on stand and thought he had more space than he did and proceeded as if WS was further forward.
Aren’t wing walkers supposed to remedy this issue?
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#15 Post by mantogasrsrwy » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:39 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:34 pm
mantogasrsrwy wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:29 pm
No excess drama there.
It was sarcasm with a lot of truth in there. If you've ever worked at YYZ, you'll see that the quality of the ramp crew has significantly decreased. Let me tell you what I've seen there in my years flying in and out of Pearson:

1. Tugs failing to give the right of way to aircraft coming into the gate
2. Failing equipment (old), such as baggage loaders, tugs, lav carts, heaters, etc.
3. Underpaid, understaffed and overworked employees
4. Employees not giving a ****. I've personally seen guys watching football games on their mobile phones while the jet was waiting to taxi into the gate. No joke!
I've seen all that and more but a couple bucks an hour isn't going to change it. Ask Air Canada.

"Cut costs, f*ck safety", the motto of the new age airline.
It'll take 180+ people to burn alive before TC does anything.

Two of the most redonkulous things I've read today.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#16 Post by YVRLTN » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:41 pm

PostmasterGeneral wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:20 pm
YVRLTN wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:13 pm
If WS was waiting for final marshaling into the gate, maybe the tug driver didnt realize he wasnt fully on stand and thought he had more space than he did and proceeded as if WS was further forward.
Aren’t wing walkers supposed to remedy this issue?
Doubt there were wing walkers for WG if it was under tow. The WS ones probably could do nothing as they were not in contact with the WG tug. But, just to clarify, I started my sentence with if.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#17 Post by Inverted2 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:44 pm

mijbil wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:12 pm
I wonder if their tug drivers are also TFW's :wink:
Isn't their ground crew Swissport? After some dealings with them and their antics blocking the employee parking garage last summer I believe many have a double digit IQ at best.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#18 Post by HansDietrich » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:46 pm

mantogasrsrwy wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:39 pm

I've seen all that and more but a couple bucks an hour isn't going to change it. Ask Air Canada.

HansDietch quote:
"Cut costs, f*ck safety", the motto of the new age airline.
.....................................................................

Two of the most redonkulous things I've read today.
1. The airlines have been cutting costs. The newly hired, lower paid, less experienced / motivated employees are nowhere close to what we used to have. I'd say 30% of the ramp crews out there are the ones that care, can and do things. The rest, couldn't be bothered. I don't blame them though. They're being made to do the work twice as hard with often poor support. What would you do if you were them?

2. No, a "couple of bucks" won't change it, but a proper, stable, decent paying job, with good benefits and schedule would. We had that once upon a time. Take off your hat from time to time, go doutside your aircraft, shake hands with the boys working hard outside and ask them how they're doing. I don't know about you, but once upon a time, I busted my arse on the ramp as well and I have nothing but respect for the ones that care and do their job. For the ones watching CFL or NFL on their phones, while a plane is waiting to be marshaled in... well I they're the type that push a 737 into another 737...
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#19 Post by RatherBeFlying » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:08 pm

I'd like to think there were wing walkers,, but was anybody watching the tail?

What lights were on?

Was the APU fire extinguisher operated?

How long was it before the Sunwing was pulled away?

What training did the ground crew have in emergency procedures?

In two years or so, TSB will fill in the blanks.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#20 Post by Inverted2 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:10 pm

Like any car accident I'm sure cell phone use will be part of the investigation.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#21 Post by plhought » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:21 pm

I won't lie - If I was on the Westjet plane I would have had a hard time figuring out if the wing was on fire or the APU of the other one. After a second viewing - yes, it looks more like the APU - but to the normal-joe passenger - I don't blame them for getting stressed out.

Also - more stories of brain-dead mouth-breathers trying to reach and grab carry-on during an evacuation.

Video link below ->

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdlmXHTnePV/

Also - *completely unverfied* post from the Instagram video - from "creamoftheprop"
I was on it too, the flight attendants didn’t do much either. There was a wonderful firefighter right behind us who took control immediately and my husband who’s a former flight attendant who got involved also. The flight attendants on board seemed frozen, and we never heard any direction from any employees being broadcast. Definitely some refresher training needed
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#22 Post by Jean-Pierre » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:40 pm

Something has to be done about the ramp worker in YYZ. It always amaze me that you can fly half way around the world perfectly on time then have to spend 20 minutes 100 feet short of your destination because there is no one there to marshal the plane into the gate. Then when they do show up the walk at a pace about half of normal walking. Meanwhile 50 people just missed their connection. Go to other country and you just don't see this kind of work ethic except in 3rd world place. If there was someone there to marshal the Westjet in this accident would have happen. Lucky no one died.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#23 Post by Commonwealth » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:33 pm

Evacuation was %100 the right call. I’m raising a glass to the skipper tonight.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#24 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:34 pm

But we can’t have that attitude Edited.
How dare we expect a proper work ethic in Canada.
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Re: WestJet and Sunwing ground collision - YYZ

#25 Post by pelmet » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:00 pm

Without commenting on the details of this incident as they are unknown.......

The overall weather picture combined with an evacuation brings up a good point. It is damn cold in this area with strong winds and in some places, wind chills down to -40 tonight and it can be much worse up north. One wants to be very certain that an evacuation is really required before ordering one, especially at locations far from the terminal. There seem to be no shortage of false fire warnings in engines and cargo compartments if you read the TSB daily reports along with other incidents.

In this case, there was an actual fire but for some of these fire warnings without confirmation of a fire, there can be significant injuries in the evacuation process and post evacuation as well from frostbite as the inevitably long wait happens before the pax are picked up.
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