Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

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telex
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by telex »

Dryden III. Fantastic.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by Zaibatsu »

I think the wings could have fallen off and this guy still would have tried to fly. A very dangerous and unprofessional attitude to have in aviation that nearly cost lives.

I bet a few thousand dollars worth of Type I and IV or waiting until the next day looks cheap now.

Good riddance.
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pelmet
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by pelmet »

7ECA wrote: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 pm After becoming airborne, the aircraft experienced power and control issues shortly after the landing gear was retracted.
Would be curious to hear more detail on "power issues"
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by goingnowherefast »

It didn't accelerate and climb like it normally does, so "must" be related to engine power.

I suspect the "power issue" is an attempt to dodge the real problem. That hypothesis most likely came from a statement from an involved party made to the TSB.

Is the TSB going to do a full investigation on this?
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JL
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by JL »

Looks like it as they have a web page for it:

http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-i ... 8p0031.asp
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C.W.E.
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by C.W.E. »

It is quite possible it was a power problem.

Maybe there was not enough power to overcome the amount of frozen contamination on the airplane that reduced the lift component?
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GARRETT
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by GARRETT »

Hey Rowdy, what deicing app. do you guys use if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like something my company may find useful. Even with all the hold over/vis. charts, deicing still seems to be a very subjective area. One guys wants type1 & 4 and another guys thinks type1 is fine. Too many interpretations. An app would solve that. Pilots LOVE apps!
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

It’s a proprietary app called “Jazz-HOT” available in our company catalog. Not sure if there are “generic” versions available.
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ahramin
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by ahramin »

We were using DAN-ICE for a while. My understanding is they have sensors and algorithms for various airports and when you request a HOT it gives one number for each type that is usually much better than the generic tables. I don't know why we got rid of it but it's possible the longer HOT wasn't needed often enough to justify the cost.
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J31
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by J31 »

ahramin wrote: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:26 pm We were using DAN-ICE for a while. My understanding is they have sensors and algorithms for various airports and when you request a HOT it gives one number for each type that is usually much better than the generic tables. I don't know why we got rid of it but it's possible the longer HOT wasn't needed often enough to justify the cost.
Westjet now owns Dan Ice.
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ahramin
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by ahramin »

Aha. Well that explains that.
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FurHat
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by FurHat »

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7ECA
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by 7ECA »

So much for the "power issue" as mentioned in the CADORS.

Some of the highlights include, PIC delegating flight planning to company personnel, attempting a takeoff in heavy snowfall, aircraft over MTOW, aircraft loaded near AFT C of G limit, surface contamination after 14 minutes outside in heavy snowfall - and no anti-icing/de-icing applied (also, no hold over time certified for heavy snow, so...), continuation bias, etc. Also, post accident examination of wreckage showed no sign of power loss prior to incident - although the pilot did reduce power to idle prior to impact.

Interestingly enough, Island Air Express was to have the AOC pulled on March 28, 2018 due to a lack of operational control, pilot training, airworthiness issues, etc.
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by pelmet »

In the end...a wing contamination accident. Would have happened regardless of weight and CG.

De-ice fluid was available but not used. As the report mentioned, pulling a plane out of a warm hangar just results in the snow melting as it hits the aircraft. I suppose if it was +1, then the melted snow would stay melted. If it was -10, then they could have kept the hangar doors open let the aircraft cool down for 30 minutes and then the dry snow would blow off the wings and not be adhering. But it was -2C.

It sounds like the thought process of the pilot was to get airborne as quick as possible(that is why he wanted the IFR clearance by phone in the hangar) before the melted falling snow had time to freeze. Obviously, it didn't work, as he had to get the clearance after being towed out of the hangar and held short of the runway for four minutes. It can be extremely difficult to tell if water droplets on the wing have frozen or not when looking at them from a distance.

Rotating at a higher than normal speed and a slow rotation rate might have saved him once he made the decision to takeoff but who knows. Sounds like it was his family on board.

Reminds me of a guy at my old company who could have easily had the aircraft de-iced (by the de-icing people - not himself so it was easy although would have taken a significant amount of time) in wet snow conditions but decided not to for some unknown reason even though other were doing so. Crashed off the end of the runway and destroyed the airplane.
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Last edited by pelmet on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by pelmet »

The report clarifies some earlier discussion on this thread. Concerning a reported power loss......

"Nothing was found to indicate that any type of pre-existing, or in-flight, system malfunction played a role in this occurrence."

"As the aircraft took off from the runway and the landing gear was retracted, the aircraft immediately banked to the left. Although this left bank was initially perceived as a power loss on the left-hand engine, nothing was found to support this theory."


Concerning holdover times...…

"Pre-flight external inspection and is mandatory when ground icing conditions are present. In situations where holdover time is being used as a decision-making criterion, if the holdover time has been exceeded, takeoff can occur only if a pre-takeoff contamination inspection is completed or the aircraft is de-iced or anti-iced again. The pre-takeoff contamination inspection does not require a tactile examination when the manufacturer has identified representative aircraft surfaces that can be reliably observed during day and night operations to judge whether critical surfaces are contaminated or not. Of note, the manufacturer has not identified a “representative aircraft surface” that can be used, in lieu of a tactile inspection...."

In addition.....

This was not a particularly bright thing to do on the part of the two in the cockpit.....

"The pilot and the passenger seated in the right-hand crew seat were not wearing the available shoulder harnesses. As a result, they sustained serious head injuries during the impact sequence."
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Re: Abbotsford Commuter Aircraft Mishap, Feb 23, 2018

Post by rigpiggy »

Kind of like an FBO I know they open the doors to the hangar, and leave the radiant heaters on. The Ops Mgr " I know what I am doing" holding my tongue isn't my strong suit...... I have other stories also
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