Helicopter down in the East River NYC

[av8ts]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.nyti ... h.amp.html

[CL-Skadoo!]

Wow, that's a real shame they didn't make it out after a relatively tame impact. Pop out float deployed, they knew they were going in.

Video here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc ... -1.3868758

[Heliian]

Absolutely tragic.

I don't know why only the pilot made it out. That was a relatively hard landing, but it looked survivable. He may have overstretched the glide or flared too early as there wasn't any rpm left at the bottom.

[mosky]

The landing looked survivable. Not sure on this particular flight but was it an open door sightseeing flight with the option for 'sneaker selfies'?

Google or Youtube it and you can understand how the passengers possibly did not get out. Imagine being harnessed into the helicopter with what looks like a standard fall arrest harness. Now try to imagine someone unfamiliar with the lanyard for this harness trying to unlatch the double safety catch behind their back in cold water in an upside down helicopter as it sinks to the bottom of the river.....

Just my first thoughts.

Hopefully there was a little more forethought by these operators that provided for quick passenger self release and egress in the event of an incident such as this but right now it doesn't seem like it.

[Heliian]

The landing looked survivable. Not sure on this particular flight but was it an open door sightseeing flight with the option for 'sneaker selfies'?

Google or Youtube it and you can understand how the passengers possibly did not get out. Imagine being harnessed into the helicopter with what looks like a standard fall arrest harness. Now try to imagine someone unfamiliar with the lanyard for this harness trying to unlatch the double safety catch behind their back in cold water in an upside down helicopter as it sinks to the bottom of the river.....

Just my first thoughts.

Hopefully there was a little more forethought by these operators that provided for quick passenger self release and egress in the event of an incident such as this but right now it doesn't seem like it.

I doubt there would be 5 pax for an open door photo flight. Also, the photog would be trained on the use of a harness. To me it sounds like just a chartered tour flight.

Their safety briefings would have to meet FAA standards. However, some people fail to grasp the information provided, they also wouldn't expect to be in that situation.

This is the absolute worst case scenario.

[mosky]

check out [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHbOYtRRm3w&t=247s[/youtube]. Go to 3:40.
i count four guys in the back seat wearing harnesses.

Here's another one: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fLIPR8BZBA&t=485s[/youtube]. Go to 5:08. At least three in the back and one in the front.

[mosky]

Not sure if this is the same operator but here's what $550 US each will buy you and 4 of your friends:

https://www.flynyon.com/product/nyc-classic

Appears to be the same operation in this news article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man ... -1.3869547

Now maybe it makes sense why the pax never got out. If this is what happened i can't believe there weren't some common sense regulations in place to prevent something like this from ever happening in the first place. They can't fall out but boy it sure makes it hard for them to get out in an emergency or ditching.

[tbengi]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pas ... -1.3870025

Looks like passengers were all secured with a harness/lanyard for an open door photo flight. Part of the safety briefing includes the use of a knife to cut the lanyards in an emergency, but the location of the knives isn't necessarily made clear to the passengers. Too bad, time for more rules...

[rookiepilot]

On Twitter, so take with grain of salt:


"Breaking: A person briefed on the matter tells me investigators are examining whether a passenger's bag accidentally hit the fuel shutoff switch in the chopper, causing it to crash into the East River. @FoxNews "

[Heliian]

I'd believe the bag on the lever as it has happened before.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance about the harnessed pax. We would never do something like that here. Just having untied shoes dangling out the door is stupid.

I'm just dumbfounded by the premise, it's not a carnival ride ffs.

I would hope they put a stop to this ridiculous idea.

[Dry Guy]

Did the helicopter sink or did the floats keep it up? 54% of Americans can't swim. Could be the reason the passengers didn't survive as the landing didn't seem to be that violent from a distance.

[PilotDAR]

Okay, now I've seen a new dumb idea! No supplemental restraint means for over water flying okay? This operator had no business flying untrained non required door open flights over water. Even over land is a stretch to the imagination! When the airboat we operated for the Fire Department was an open "Florida" style type, I forbade the use of any harness, lest the boat capsize and sink quickly. 'Same reason to not wear a bouyant lifejacket inside a cabin!

I wonder if the use of those restraints was approved? Were the airframe seatbelts also being worn?

[Heliian]

A detailed look and update:

https://www.verticalmag.com/news/faa-ta ... content=V1

With all of our safety systems and knowledge today, this never should have happened. I'm sure the FAA will be scrutinized also.

[teacher]

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018 ... ators.html

The five people who drowned in the March 11 crash were wearing harnesses that had not been approved by the Federal Aviation Administration. Safety belts attached behind them during the open-door flight.

The pilot, Richard Vance, wasn’t wearing a harness —only lap and shoulder belts —and escaped from the rapidly sinking Liberty Helicopter Airbus AS350 with only minor injuries, the National Transportation Safety Board said Monday.

[W5]

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-release ... 80319.aspx

[Heliian]

The FAA has now made it official and released an emergency order to ban this:
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... rs-ops?amp

They are very quick to distance themselves from this, the lawyers will no doubt try to find out what the FAA knew about the restraints beforehand.

[RatherBeFlying]

People have been caught by fall harnesses, only to end up dead.

http://elcosh.org/document/1662/d000568 ... ou%3F.html

You need a means to recover anybody hanging from a harness within five minutes.

[golden hawk]

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... L&IType=MA

[pelmet]

"At this point he was "committed to impact," and, when he reached down for the emergency fuel shutoff lever, he realized that it was in the off position. He also noted that a portion of the front seat passenger's tether was underneath the lever."


Shows what can happen. I fly a V-tail Bonanza and the headset plug-in is in just the right location that the cord is on the floor around the fuel selector and needs to be carefully moved clear of it. I suppose in a tour operation, one needs to be constantly vigilant for something like this, or skydiving ops with people moving around, etc.

[PilotDAR]

That's a worthwhile summary report. There is repeated mention of the harness, a non aviation product, and the cutter, intended as a means of exiting that harness quickly. I assert that it is exceptionally optimistic to think that an average, non practiced person can cut themselves out of a harness in an emergency, particularly under water. Sure, it sounds easy, but it is not! The evidence here is clear - the pilot, practiced, and with a certified restraint (as a part of the helicopter certification) was able to exit with no injury. The unpracticed occupants, even with no door to have to open, could not escape, any of them.

People are generally being much too optimistic about what they can accomplish in near freezing water, inverted, inadequately trained and practiced. Elsewhere here, in my manifesto about lifejacket use, I described my valuable experience taking the dunker course. in four non emergency, practiced exits underwater, it was all I could do to escape at all, I only found and also took the lifejacket on the final try - and that was really simple stuff. Finding a cutting tool in a pouch (which, inverted, is no longer where you thought it was), then grabbing it and not dropping it, getting the cutting end the right way around, and then cutting the harness is just too much to ask. And, nylon webbing is not as easy to cut as one might think, when the webbing is not taught.

The last time I was in the water, I had just been ejected from the aircraft I had just been in. My seatbelt had been torn away from the aircraft floor ('explains my broken back). So, egress was not needed - and gee, I'd taken the training for that! The take away from this sad event for those who read these pages and fly over water is: Fly in aircraft which conform to their design, including the restraints, take egress training, and, wear a lifejacket at all times. Finally, practice egress from your aircraft safely on the ground. Practice at night, so the dark simulates that you're not seeing what you're doing. Then, practice it all with only one hand, in case you'd broken the other one. If you get really good at this, do it on a really cold winter night, wearing only a T shirt (to simulate cold), and then tart searching for a cutter in a pouch somewhere...

I'm glad that the FAA banned this foolishness, it's just sad that some people had to die first. Common sense was too late...