Navajo lands on the street in yyc

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AuxBatOn
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by AuxBatOn »

If, in the course of their investigation, the TSB finds something that puts the public at risk, they will communicate it to the operators.

Don't forget that risk is quantified in impact of an event happening vs likelihood of that event happenning. Because the outcome of something is catastrophic doesn't mean it's "high risk". In fact, it could be an acceptable risk if it is deemed not to be likely to happen.
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Last edited by AuxBatOn on Sun May 27, 2018 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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telex
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by telex »

C.W.E. wrote: Sun May 27, 2018 10:59 am You really seem upset telex because I find it pathetic that it takes the Canadian authorities so long to determine what caused an accident as serious as this one.

Then maybe you and I have different thoughts on accidents that puts the paying public at high risk of injury or death.

By the way I do not have a Greek license it is EASA.
Dad,

I'm not upset.

But you did not present your plan to conclude the investigation in a timeline that suits your agenda. Let's try not to get distracted here.

I will once again kindly request your detailed analysis of this event which includes a timeline for the final report to be released for public consumption.

Or if you just want to continue to bitch and moan about this or that and warm water and lemon juice I'm still not upset.

It is so admirable of you to undertake your grass roots effort to protect the flying public from high injury or death in a Navajo by landing on a Calgary street. On avcanada. I think i shat me drawers laughing. Can I tweet your instagram facebook some bitcoin so you can continue your mission to protect the flying public?

Your Greek licence chest thumping is well documented here.

You win again. I don't got one.
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Last edited by telex on Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

It's an incident. Not an accident.
Well how stupid of me to have called it an accident.

So it was an incident that left the aircraft unflyable due to part of a wing having been cut off.

I guess in today's world you have to really wreck an aircraft for it to be considered dangerous.

Anyhow it would appear that I am not with the times and what I consider a serious event is nothing more than just bad luck.
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Diadem
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by Diadem »

C.W.E. wrote: Sun May 27, 2018 10:59 am You really seem upset telex because I find it pathetic that it takes the Canadian authorities so long to determine what caused an accident as serious as this one.

Then maybe you and I have different thoughts on accidents that puts the paying public at high risk of injury or death.
You mean like when the TSB released the update about the West Wind crash four months after it happened? You seem to be under this misguided assumption that they won't report anything in under two years, but if they have interim findings that are in the public interest then they release it.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by goingnowherefast »

There are two types of complainers. Those who bitch just to listen to themselves talk, typically cranky old men and the stereotypical millenial. Then there is those who outline a weak area and actually do something about it.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

There are two types of complainers. Those who bitch just to listen to themselves talk, typically cranky old men and the stereotypical millenial.



Today is just a typical boring day out here on Vancouver Island so I use this forum to pass time.

Are you labelling me as a cranky old man goingnowherefast and if so do you know me personally?
Then there is those who outline a weak area and actually do something about it.
I spent decades teaching advanced flying and good decision making skills therefore I truly feel I have contributed to aviation safety.

So tell me what you have done about weak areas in flying?

I can understand some people taking offence at my posts that question why accidents happen ( I am from an era that did not whitewash damaging aircraft sufficiently to make them unflyable by describing it as an incident so I still consider them accidents. ) but I do get annoyed at being called derogatory names just because you do not like my attitude about aircraft safety.

So instead of using my age to demean me why don't you find something in my flying career to demean me with?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by goingnowherefast »

You complain about the TSB to strangers on the internet. How about you actually do something to fix what you see as the problem? I'm sure they could use somebody with your vast experience on staff.

I demean you because your attitude is unhelpful. It has nothing to do with your age or career.

Now back to telex's request of you:
telex wrote: Instead of bitching and moaning about how incompetent the regulators are in Canada why don't you present your findings into this incident?

Since you have such an issue with the timeliness of the root cause of this incident why don't you walk us through what this investigation should look like and give us an acceptable timeline to expect an official and accurate conclusion to this incident.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

Now back to telex's request of you:
telex wrote:
Instead of bitching and moaning about how incompetent the regulators are in Canada why don't you present your findings into this incident?
And how exactly do suggest I could have findings?
Since you have such an issue with the timeliness of the root cause of this incident why don't you walk us through what this investigation should look like and give us an acceptable timeline to expect an official and accurate conclusion to this incident.
Well for sure I can comment on this part.

In an accident such as this with the airplane sitting on the street with only the outer part of one wing missing they should be able to determine if there was any fuel in the airplane and if there was the crew should have been able to tell them why it was not used, or what actions they took to use it.

Forgive me but I find it really difficult to believe some mechanical problem caused both engines to lose power enough that they feathered both engines and landed on a city street.

Is that to much to expect?

If these are to be learning experiences at least we should be able to figure out what there was to learn.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by AuxBatOn »

Fuel leak? Contaminated fuel? Mechanical failure of component(s)?

The point, ., if you can't help fix the issue or even bring forth some meaningful suggestions, just stop bitching... It does make you sound like a senile old man.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

Fuel leak? Contaminated fuel? Mechanical failure of component(s)?

Well lets look at these possibilities.

Fuel leak would have been evident by the stains that it would have left......

That should have been evident during the examination before it was even moved off the street.

Contaminated fuel also should not take a month to determine.

If there were mechanical failures that caused both engines to quit I can see it taking more time, but a month should be sufficient in an accident that was as serious as that one.

The point, ., if you can't help fix the issue or even bring forth some meaningful suggestions, just stop bitching... It does make you sound like a senile old man.
O.K. I may be senile in which case you should be able to just disregard anything I have to say about these subjects.

By the way I did not have a very high opinion of the TSB around forty five years ago when I was interviewed by them regarding a fatal accident we had in the water bombing business, but in all fairness they might be really efficient now, so yeh I must be senile.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by AuxBatOn »

You do not have high opinions of anybody but yourself ..
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

Yup, I am so good how could I possibly not be impressed with myself.

Do you believe the Canadian judicial system is fair AuxBatOn?
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by goingnowherefast »

The TSB investigates more than just the immediate facts. They ask why, and then ask why again and again and again.

They look at why they didn't take enough gas. Well they thought they had enough. Well why did they think that? The pilot before them said there was lots remaining. Well why did they trust him? Because thats how its been for years, and the gauges looked about right. Why did the gauges lie and why is company culture so lax about fuel? Gauges lied because a float was half sunk. Company culture was like this because that's what the old boss taught everybody. Well now we have one finding as to cause, not following the company fuel policy. Now why was the float half sunk? There was a pin hole in the top. Why was there a hole in the float? Better go through all the tech logs and find out that the sender was replaced 12 months ago. Did the hole develop recently or manufacturing defect?

We've gone from "pilots ran out of gas, they're liable for millions, pull their license" to a part defect and possibly an AD for a certain brand of fuel sender. This is just demonstrating the why path that lead to the results, there's also the why's that don't lead anywhere.

Every time you ask why it takes time to investigate. You don't go through a year of maintenance paperwork in 3 hours. Did the fuel gauge lie because the gauge sucked, resistance problem in old wires, which sender was it? Takes time to rip the plane apart and investigate every component.

Or why did that fuel leak develop. Or why did automotive diesel get into the tanks. Could ask why a million times for every senario.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by telex »

You could do it that way.

Or...

Break a branch off the nearest tree and dip the tanks. Record findings on mustard stained napkin taken from seat pocket. Return to office and release final report before lunch.

I'm not sure how Greek authorities would do it. Anybody here hold a Greek licence?
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by Rockie »

AuxBatOn wrote: Sun May 27, 2018 7:30 pm You do not have high opinions of anybody but yourself ..
Not true. There's a certain fighter pilot wannabe recreational pilot with multiple severe personality disorders that he thinks very highly of.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

I'm not sure how Greek authorities would do it. Anybody here hold a Greek licence?

Ahhh, eventually the pieces fall into place if you wait long enough.

I think I understand your fixation on Greek now telex, it has nothing to do with licenses does it?
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

Not true. There's a certain fighter pilot wannabe recreational pilot with multiple severe personality disorders that he thinks very highly of.
Actually you are correct, you guys may not think much of us but we have enough self worth that we don't hide behind made up names Rockie and AuxBatOn.

Instead of making snide remarks based only on your own personal opinions of our personalities how about digging a bit deeper and coming up with something factual about my flying history that is negative and provable?

Once again I will ask a question, this time directed at both Rockie and AuxBatOn.

Do you two trust the Canadian judicial system when it comes out with a verdict?
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by telex »

C.W.E. wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 7:27 am
I'm not sure how Greek authorities would do it. Anybody here hold a Greek licence?

Ahhh, eventually the pieces fall into place if you wait long enough.

I think I understand your fixation on Greek now telex, it has nothing to do with licenses does it?
Dad,

I don't hold a Greek licence.

You do.

I bet you want to separate the men from the boys here.

Any more questions?
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by Rockie »

C.W.E. wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 7:35 am Actually you are correct, you guys may not think much of us but we have enough self worth that we don't hide behind made up names Rockie and AuxBatOn.
Blah, blah, blah.
C.W.E. wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 7:35 am Do you two trust the Canadian judicial system when it comes out with a verdict?
Yes. While not perfect the alternative is anarchy and vigilanteism. In all these years I've never seen the legal systems side of your story, but I have read about the recreational pilot's troubles. All self-induced as I'm increasingly sure yours are.
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C.W.E.
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Re: Navajo lands on the street in yyc

Post by C.W.E. »

I've never seen the legal systems side of your story, but I have read about the recreational pilot's troubles. All self-induced as I'm increasingly sure yours are.
This says all anyone needs to know about your character Rockie, you state you know nothing about my legal issue with TC but you have the gall to insinuate my legal issue with TC was self-induced.

That borders on being libellous Rockie because my legal case with TC was suing them for abuse of power and after almost three years of litigation I won my case on all counts and TC was found to have in fact denied me due process.

I am not sure if you can find the ongoing fight I had to get justice Rockie but Joe allowed me to relate it as it went from start to finish here on Avcanada because I backed it up with verifiable evidence as it progressed.

Maybe you should think about making libellous statements on a public forum or do you think you are somehow special and are free to trash people at your own whim?

Here is something to think about.
Libellous definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... /libellous
If a statement in a book, newspaper, or magazine is libellous, it wrongly accuses someone of something, and is therefore against the law. He claimed the articles were libellous and damaging to the interests of the team. Synonyms: defamatory, false, untrue, malicious More Synonyms of libellous.
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