Coordinate that turn to final

[C.W.E.]

it’s sheer idiocy to mismanage your fuel to such an extent that those two manoeuvres can no longer safely be achieved.

Exactly and we do not need a degree in how the mind works to come to that logical conclusion.

Assuming of course there was not some other cause for the event.

One thing for sure discussing it is a positive thing because it may sink into someones head reading these discussions that you have to maintain situational awareness when you are operating any mechanical device such as an airplane.

I'm still wondering why that Navajo landed in the street in Calgary.

Maybe some day in the far off future we will find out if the TSB ever figures it out.

[TT1900]

You don’t need a degree to figure out fuel mismanagement to the point of starvation is “idiotic”. You also don’t need a degree to fly an aircraft well. Flying isn’t overly academic or intellectual, excepting a very few specialties, and most pilots are of average intelligence. A relevant post-secondary education, combined with aviation experience, helps when figuring out why a trained professional pilot decided to be “an idiot” and run himself out of fuel.

C.W.E, I respect your experience, but your disdain for university education and resentment towards all government aviation bodies is evident and confuses me. More confusing is your apparent dismissal of accident cause. Does it not make sense to figure it out and make logical changes if required, vice preaching “don’t do this”. Does it really matter what level of education the person solving the problem has? If you can give solid reasons why something should not be done, or better yet train from the outset to think differently and avoid the problem altogether, people are more likely to comply and minimize repeat occurrences.

[C.W.E.]

C.W.E, I respect your experience, but your disdain for university education

I do not have disdain for university education that is your opinion and you are incorrect.

and resentment towards all government aviation bodies is evident and confuses me.

Again you are making a broad sweeping assumption. I do have issues with some government officials who abuse their power.

More confusing is your apparent dismissal of accident cause. Does it not make sense to figure it out and make logical changes if required, vice preaching “don’t do this”. Does it really matter what level of education the person solving the problem has? If you can give solid reasons why something should not be done, or better yet train from the outset to think differently and avoid the problem altogether, people are more likely to comply and minimize repeat occurrences.

Thanks for the advice.

However teaching flying was a very big part of my flying career for almost half a century and I was very successful in my flight training business which was focused on safety through understanding all the different skills and subjects involved in aviation.

Many times on these forums I have stated clearly that in my opinion teaching flying is the highest accomplishment a pilot can aspire to.

And safety trumps all other accomplishments.

[photofly]

You can be a really smart person and still make the dumbest mistakes. It’s not a moral defect or venal sin; we’ve all done stupid things, and most of us have got away without terrible consequences. There’s absolutely no “holier than thou” about this, very much more “there but for the grace of God go I”. The pilot learned a really really cheap lesson here, and was able to land safely with no power on final, which shows some presence of mind. For the rest of us the lesson isn’t even cheap, it’s completely free. The only bit that still puzzles me is why not everyone is eager to learn it. I’m still scratching my head about that.

[C.W.E.]

You can be a really smart person and still make the dumbest mistakes. It’s not a moral defect or venal sin; we’ve all done stupid things, and most of us have got away without terrible consequences.

That is true we all make mistakes, however we also should know how to quickly correct the mistakes and at least lessen the damage the mistake might cause.

I like to think that I got through my career without wrecking any aircraft at least partly by always thinking ahead of where I was in the aircraft, and of course a lot of luck had to be involved.

Why are some people accident prone?

[TT1900]

CWE,

I’m not giving you advice. I’m asking questions to try and better understand where you’re coming from and presenting my opinion so you get an idea where I’m coming from. No sense offering advice to a guy no longer in the game. Serves no purpose.

I agree that safety is a worthy goal in aviation. My point was only that there are people other than pilots, some with significant education, that help further that cause. Why be dismissive of that?

[C.W.E.]

TT1900 , it is quite possible I am unable to grasp complex issues such as the psychological processes involved in aviation incidences, accidents due to my lack of formal education so it would be nice if you cut me some slack. However I do have enough intelligence to be interested in the subject of why people smash up airplanes.

I am still wondering why that Navajo landed in the street in Calgary because it was such a close call to someone being injured or killed.

So I am wondering what you really smart people think caused them to end up there with both engines feathered.

Am I being just to inquisitive and should I just wait for the accident report to be made public sometime in the far off future?

I don't want to come across as unprofessional and impatient to know the cause, maybe you can guide me in how to be patient while the real pros seek the answer?

[TT1900]

So I am wondering what you really smart people think

should I just wait for the accident report to be made public?

maybe you can guide me in how to be patient while the real pros seek the answer?

Why are you lumping me in with the smart people? I know just enough to realize I know very little about accident investigation. Let the qualified people (not me) do their jobs.

Yes.

Get a hobby?

I’m happy to continue debating the finer points of accident investigations, accident statistics, education vs intellect, TSB timelines, or whatever other diversion you choose, but it won’t be in this thread. I’ve helped drift it far enough.