The pilot (a very highly experienced DC-3 fellow) did lift the tail as the airspeed came alive, by pushing gently with one hand, while he set power with the other - no problem. The tail was nicely up by 40 knots, and the aircraft was lifted off at 82 knots.
Exactly PilotDar.
Thanks for posting that because it is very important to give correct information about how a given airplane flies and the way that pilot in the video explained how to fly the DC3 is not correct...period...unless of course there is a ton of lead way back beyond the back bulkhead in his airplane.
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Interesting how both hands have to be used to push forward and raise the tail.
I have never flown an airplane that required two hands to raise the tail ...ever... especially a DC3.
If you watch the flightchops video with the same person instructing Steve, Steve raises the tail with one hand and the other on the throttles. I don't doubt the tail staying low being the reason for getting airborne early and dropping a wing, just a matter of learning why.
---------- ADS -----------
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
switchflicker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:01 am
#19 Post by GyvAir » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:55 pm
I've seen two DC3s flown single pilot in Canada. One Canadian registered and one N registered. Both flown by pilots sporting a bit of a renegade cowboy persona about them.
Gyvair,
Could you tell us about the Canadian registered one.
Thanks
Well, it was late 90s if I have my times straight. I won't name names here. I had a look on the registry and the company doesn't appear to have any aircraft active. The plane has since been sold and has been Baslerized at some point. The flight I observed was presumably empty, but I don't know for sure. I had observed the plane sitting for a day or two. I recognized it from previous encounters. A person who I took to be the owner and one other person showed up one morning, poured a a couple pails of oil in the tanks plus assorted other pre-flight tinkerings. The owner of the aircraft/company got in and flew away. The other person then drove away in the vehicle they'd arrived in. As far as I know, the plane was normally operated with two crew. Any other time I'd seen it in action, it had been, at least. Not many DC3 missions that you wouldn't want/need the second pilot just to deal with the cargo anyway, even if you didn't let them touch anything in the cockpit.
The American one I referred to arrived in southern Ontario from Michigan with a skid of cargo in the early 90s. I don't remember the outfit's name at all. The pilot looked like he'd come in straight from Newport Beach. I'd almost bet there was a surfboard onboard, just in case. Flew in and out, single pilot. At the time, I was naive enough not to realize that it was odd until someone pointed it out.
Is it possible that with the different variations of the DC3 out there that people have different perceptions of its flight characteristics because they are not all alike?
Thanks GyvAir
Seems to me there is/was a mod you could do the DC-3 to allow single pilot operation (probably cargo only) where you had to have the cowl gill
controls moved closer to the left seat. Like PilotDAR says though It wouldn't be much fun with an emergency like pumping the hydraulics. I think some DC-3 operator in Winnipeg a long time ago added electric hyd. pumps to the engine driven ones.
Anybody remember this stuff or am I having another one of those senior moments?
---------- ADS -----------
"I'd rather have it and not need than to need it and not have it" Capt. Augustus McCrae.
Is it possible that with the different variations of the DC3 out there that people have different perceptions of its flight characteristics because they are not all alike?
The standard DC3 airframe has several engine installations R1830-92 and R1830-94 so the only difference is better performance.
The R4D-8 ( Super DC3 ) is a completely different airframe and even bigger engines so not only is it a far better performer it has a better payload and it does not handle as nce as a standard DC3.
I have the R4D-8 manuals somewhere if you need numbers.
So what's the deal......two hands, one hand. Remember the old saying that there are as many ways to land a DC-3 as there are DC-3 captains? Maybe it applies to takeoffs as well.
I think I've flown 5 legs in the jumpseat of a DC3, all in the same one, with mixed crews (of 2!) from a very small pool of pilots. This is about how I remember the flying:
switchflicker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:01 am
#19 Post by GyvAir » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:55 pm
I've seen two DC3s flown single pilot in Canada. One Canadian registered and one N registered. Both flown by pilots sporting a bit of a renegade cowboy persona about them.
Gyvair,
Could you tell us about the Canadian registered one.
Thanks
There was a DC-3 at Prince George back in the early 80's that was being flown single pilot.
---------- ADS -----------
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment.
The company I flew DC-3's for back when the dinosaurs roamed the range had external control locks that defied anyone to attempt takeoff with them installed. The elevators were locked full down, the rudder at full left deflection and the ailerons at full left aileron. Still didn't trust you though, the last three items on the line-up check were: Controls................Free/Full Travel, Friction Lock...............On, Tailwheel Lock............Engaged.
C.W.E. wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:15 pm
You forgot the most important check Siddley.
Brain engaged.
Heh heh.
I once did an IFR renewal all by myself, with just the DOT inspector. At the time I was a co-pilot, but had had my left seat checkout, so just the two of us buggered off and did the ride. Does that qualify as single pilot?
I once did an IFR renewal all by myself, with just the DOT inspector. At the time I was a co-pilot, but had had my left seat checkout, so just the two of us buggered off and did the ride. Does that qualify as single pilot?
Ahhh.. those were the days when the Government inspectors were just ordinary guys who used common sense when doing check rides and were teachers not policy drones.
I once did a check ride with Jim Bell the chief pilot at Austin Airways on the DC3 and just after lift off he failed the right engine with the mixture control...which broke off and he calmly put it in his shirt pocket and watched me do a quick circuit and land.
Of course we had to get towed back to the ramp but he passed me on the check ride and we all went to the Empire Hotel and had a good laugh and some beers.
Report from one of the passengers on Bluebonnet Belle,
New status in life - airplane crash survivor. Not one you want. Tina and I were on the flight when the C-47 Bluebonnet Belle crashed on takeoff Sat, 7/21 at Burnet, Tx. There were 13 of us on board, including the crew, and we all made it out. Several suffered burns and 3 of those were admitted to burn units and 3 others, including Tina, were treated and released. As of this evening, only 1 is still under burn care and he will completely recover after a few more weeks of burn care. Tina has blisters that are requiring wound care, but she is in no pain aside from a bruised rib. Most of the burn victims were burned exiting the airplane. Fuel had spilled all over the ground and had splashed over the top of the plane. The 1st two to open the aft door were burned the worst. Some had to jump through the fire to get out. You can find videos and pictures of the crash and the aftermath all over the internet - search for C-47 crash. As Operations Officer for the Highland Lakes squadron, this flight was operated under my authority, which means I have spent the last 3 days helping gather facts and documents to share with the NTSB, the FAA and CAF. It's encouraging to see these professionals working on this and we are especially grateful for the support and assistance from Jim Lasche and Buddy Cooksey from CAF HQ! Most of us lost our cell phones, computers, tablets, clothes, etc, in the fire, so it has been hard to stay in contact. Plane crashes, esp those caught on video - seem to draw incredible speculation and this one is no exception. The experts, the NTSB will take months or even years analyzing the facts of this accident to determine what happened, but many people seem to think they can watch a grainy video and know all sorts of things. As a semi-insider in this thing, there are some things I can say with certainty. The engines were operating just fine - very smooth, appearing to make good power. The CG was near the center of the envelope. The gross weight at takeoff was slightly under our self-imposed limit of 25,200 lbs, which is more than 1000 lbs less than the normal max gross weight for this model of C-47. The gust locks had been removed and the controls were operating freely. The tailwheel was properly locked at the start of the takeoff run. So all you speculators.....just STFU! The outpouring of sympathy and remorse from all of our friends and family, the CAF community, the larger Warbird community, Daks over Normany, D-Day Squadron has been heartening and very appreciated. Highland Lakes Squadron has been caring for Bluebonnet Belle since 2001 and we are all heart-broken at her loss. But we are blessed to be alive and have only recoverable injuries. Our Bluebonnet Airshow is still on for Sept 8th and it will be a great show! Thanks to everyone for the concern, wishes and prayers! We are fine!”
