SeaTac stolen plane

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BE02 Driver
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by BE02 Driver » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:31 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:20 am
BE02 Driver wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:11 am
rookiepilot wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:47 pm


BE02, sensitivity, dude.

Do you get the simple fact in this incident that mental illness isn't a joke? It's completely tragic, as Gino says. Think of this man's family for one second.
It wasn't a joke. Until they find human remains, faking ones death is always an investigative possibility. See below.

Russell has been presumed dead in the crash of the Horizon Air Q400 turboprop on Ketron Island, though investigators continue to search the site.
OK fair enough. That is a possibility I suppose. I listened to the audio though. Heartbreaking all I'm saying.
I mean, I'm a realist, I understand it's 99.99% that he went down with that plane. It's just the oddest case of mental illness I've ever scene, and yes, I've dealt with a lot of mental illness over the years.

It's incredible that someone that has no diagnoses of mental illness, even by his own admission, that was the first time he even noticed it. To then have a suicidal episode and still have the wherewithal to start a relatively complex machine, taxi, fly etc. Its a pretty unique situation. I'm no pyschologist, but this is almost beyond belief. It makes me believe that there has to be more to this.

But, maybe it's as cut and dry as everyone is saying.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:55 am

Nothing personal, BE02.

It's just....I find it ironic in our media and culture, it's considered very wrong to mock others based on gender, orientation, physical infirmities, race, and likely a whole bunch of other stuff. And rightly so. I don't support racism, or any ism, in any regard.

But it's totally fair game for anyone to mock mental illness, especially among white males.

Check out the suicide rates among middle aged white men. Disturbing, and zero attention in our PC culture where a stray off word to a "minority" is headline news and grounds for social media crucifying.

Everyone has a phone ready to film someone's outburst. No one digs, why.

Check this out: let's even go after the homeless for being white males, and mentally ill, perhaps.
Nice.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/christ ... asculinity
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by laminar » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:14 am

BE02 Driver wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:31 am
rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:20 am
BE02 Driver wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:11 am


It wasn't a joke. Until they find human remains, faking ones death is always an investigative possibility. See below.

Russell has been presumed dead in the crash of the Horizon Air Q400 turboprop on Ketron Island, though investigators continue to search the site.
OK fair enough. That is a possibility I suppose. I listened to the audio though. Heartbreaking all I'm saying.
I mean, I'm a realist, I understand it's 99.99% that he went down with that plane. It's just the oddest case of mental illness I've ever scene, and yes, I've dealt with a lot of mental illness over the years.

It's incredible that someone that has no diagnoses of mental illness, even by his own admission, that was the first time he even noticed it. To then have a suicidal episode and still have the wherewithal to start a relatively complex machine, taxi, fly etc. Its a pretty unique situation. I'm no pyschologist, but this is almost beyond belief. It makes me believe that there has to be more to this.

But, maybe it's as cut and dry as everyone is saying.
I once dealt with a woman who was able to recite the US states in alphabetic and reverse alphabetic order while pushing a knife into her own chest. I have had people in severe psychotic breaks who have been able to remember a minute detail of a conversation I had with them years prior. The human mind is incredible. While a suicidal person “on the edge” can sometimes seem like their mind is gone they can be very “with it” which makes the situation even more dangerous if you let your guard down.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Victory » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:35 am

"Hey, do you think if I land this successfully, Alaska will give me a job as a pilot?"
"You know, I think they would give you a job doing anything if you could pull this off."
"Yeah right!... Nah, I'm a white guy."

Says a lot really.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by BE02 Driver » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:10 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:55 am
Nothing personal, BE02.

It's just....I find it ironic in our media and culture, it's considered very wrong to mock others based on gender, orientation, physical infirmities, race, and likely a whole bunch of other stuff. And rightly so. I don't support racism, or any ism, in any regard.

But it's totally fair game for anyone to mock mental illness, especially among white males.

Check out the suicide rates among middle aged white men. Disturbing, and zero attention in our PC culture where a stray off word to a "minority" is headline news and grounds for social media crucifying.

Everyone has a phone ready to film someone's outburst. No one digs, why.

Check this out: let's even go after the homeless for being white males, and mentally ill, perhaps.
Nice.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/christ ... asculinity
I agree with you. I think this might just spur some good debate about some of the stigmas around mental health issues. In general I'm not a fan of the way the media reports.

I would love if someone on here with a degree or specific expertise in this field could perhaps shed some light on what they think happened here.

I'd love to get some insight on how someone can have literally zero issues, and then just snap and steal a plane with no apparent precursors to mental health. Then while in crisis operate a plane that they have zero training on. This seems very unique.

On the other note, regarding the post about jail time.....well you can't just remove general derturance. Saying that he might have landed if he wasn't facing jail is non-sense.....perhaps he would have, but in the meantime how many more people would steal planes if it wasn't illegal?
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:17 pm

I'm no expert, but seems to me you answer it yourself.

Due to the stigma you reference, no one would disclose any mental issues willingly. Wouldn't do much for ones career advancement.

Metal aircraft parts have a fatigue limit. No apparent issues, then catastrophic failure.

Maybe some people are the same.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by duele » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:45 pm

I listened to the 25 minute clip of the radio conversations. The frequency was of course quite busy and periodically there would be an exchange between the controllers and Rich. I'm curious why they didn't seem to try to have him switch to a different frequency so that someone could have continually been talking to him?
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duele

Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by duele » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:50 pm

Rich even says himself at one point "I'd like to shoot the shit with you guys, but it's all just business." I don't mean to criticize what anyone did in response to the situation, but it just seems strange to me that there was fairly minimal communications with this rogue plane?
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:57 pm

Was the plane intentionally crashed, or was it over-stressed/over-sped until it fell apart, unable to be controlled and crashed?
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Back2Final » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:43 pm

The air traffic control audio you are listening to is not the complete tape of a specific frequency.It jumps around from tower to departure and approach. I'm quite sure whatever frequency Richie showed up on was sterilized and all other traffic moved to another freq. What we are able to hear may only part of the conversations that went on during this event.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Eric Janson » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:30 am

I'd love to get some insight on how someone can have literally zero issues, and then just snap and steal a plane with no apparent precursors to mental health. Then while in crisis operate a plane that they have zero training on. This seems very unique.
No expert regarding Mental Health issues but one possible explanation is medication - either wearing off or side effects from being taken.

Medication can have some very detrimental side effects.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Old fella » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:31 am

Mental health is one if not the biggest challenges facing our society today, resources are sadly lacking here in Canada to deal with what many in the medical profession say is a crisis. Just looking around and seeing the opeiod drug situation, mental issues and incarceration rates, suicide. It cuts across all professions,demography and age. Nobody is left untouched, I heard the many stories from my two family members in the health profession. We have to feel for the love ones of this man whose lives have been shattered and the ongoing difficulties in picking up the pieces of their lives and moving on. If there is any consolation this guy in the final stage of mental breakdown elected not to take innocents with him. This isn’t always the case.

Very sad indeed.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by youhavecontrol » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:27 am

A few thoughts about this incident that came across my mind:

1. I feel really sorry for this man, for his family, and those that knew and cared about him. He obviously seemed like a very intelligent man who had some serious problems in his life and was pushed into desperation. I also feel bad for the crew that have to deal with this wreckage and his body recovery, for the controllers and witnesses of the accident and for the man's co-workers that have to deal with his loss.

2. Maybe I should feel bad for thinking this, but that was some impressive flying, both for him, and the Q400... it's basically what every kid does in flight sim after about 20 minutes of flying a big aircraft around.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Dry Guy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:54 am

In his conversation with ATC he mentions he had doubts Alaska would hire him as a pilot because he was white. I think a lot of us have probably had this feeling at one point or another during our careers.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Rockie » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:28 pm

With regards to the flying, when I saw the video I not only thought he was a pilot but aerobatically trained too. A barrel roll isn't that easy to do matching the roll rate with the pitch rate through changing "G" conditions moving through inverted. It's really hard to believe practice on a flight sim can do that.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by photofly » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:24 pm

Dry Guy wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:54 am
In his conversation with ATC he mentions he had doubts Alaska would hire him as a pilot because he was white. I think a lot of us have probably had this feeling at one point or another during our careers.
Only the white ones. The black pilots probably had doubts that anyone would hire them because they were black.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by duele » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:42 pm

Back2Final wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:43 pm
The air traffic control audio you are listening to is not the complete tape of a specific frequency.It jumps around from tower to departure and approach. I'm quite sure whatever frequency Richie showed up on was sterilized and all other traffic moved to another freq. What we are able to hear may only part of the conversations that went on during this event.
His complaint to them indicates he wanted to talk to them and was frustrated they were busy. Doesn't sound like he was on a sterile frequency atleast for the first while to the point where he said that.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Rowdy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:31 pm

I can hear the overspeed alarm in a bunch of the audio clips.

It also sounds like he was at takeoff power from videos as it passed overhead. Would explain his complaints of high fuel burn...

I too wonder if the airplane finally just came apart. Couple rolls, a half loop, bunch of hard turns, most likely while overspeeding.

Tragic all around. I think anyone, regardless of color, gender or background has felt that way at some point. We really don't do enough for those with mental health issues.. You wouldn't tell someone with a broken leg and compound fracture to just 'walk it off' would you? Yet we tell people to just 'be happy' all the time...
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Invertago » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:18 pm

I feel really sad for Rich and the outcome here. It also had me wonder though. Had he landed the plane, what would the charge be? Grand theft? Property has been returned but likely damaged. FAA fines and violations, ya probably, not like they could yank his license. Public endangerment related charges I guess. Probably some sorta jail sentence or mental institute. Probably a book deal and fame in the end that would pay out better then the lost years of ramp worker wages.


Just imaging a different better end to the story. I might have tried that angle to talk him out of it myself. Even in jail, this kinda crime is not likely something the other inmates would have beat him up for.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by AirFrame » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:36 am

Rockie wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:28 pm
With regards to the flying, when I saw the video I not only thought he was a pilot but aerobatically trained too. A barrel roll isn't that easy to do matching the roll rate with the pitch rate through changing "G" conditions moving through inverted. It's really hard to believe practice on a flight sim can do that.
Don't forget we don't have a cockpit view, just a grainy video. Even a poorly executed barrel roll could look pretty good from the outside filmed by a shaky handheld phone cam. It's unlikely he was all that coordinated, he was just coordinated "enough" to complete the manoeuver without ripping the plane apart in the process.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by rigpiggy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:00 am

Ssri's have the known side effects of suicidal tendencies. Just listened to i think a w5 or something report on it
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Kejidog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:43 pm

I don’t feel sorry at all for this guy. Sort of like the murder that covers up his crime runs away and then claims mental health issues. It is called responsibility and it still is in the dictionary. He stole an aircraft. And crashed it while acting like an idiot. The people that had to talk to him and worry about wether he was going to do a 911 will have to deal with that conversation for the rest of their lives. the people i sympathize with. Also the first respondes that have to cut his body out of the plane deserve our thoughts. He’s no hero. This PC bullshit is getting out of hand.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by rookiepilot » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:01 pm

Kejidog wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:43 pm
I don’t feel sorry at all for this guy. Sort of like the murder that covers up his crime runs away and then claims mental health issues. It is called responsibility and it still is in the dictionary. He stole an aircraft. And crashed it while acting like an idiot. The people that had to talk to him and worry about wether he was going to do a 911 will have to deal with that conversation for the rest of their lives. the people i sympathize with. Also the first respondes that have to cut his body out of the plane deserve our thoughts. He’s no hero. This PC bullshit is getting out of hand.
Hey I did not call him a hero. Maybe someone else did.
And I sure feel sorry for his family, too. I see you don't mention them.

Nice. Another one who loves to mock mental illness. Probably the same type of person that gets offended when a passenger doesn't salute your bars on your uniform. I know the type.

That's what I think, sport. I suggest growing up a little. Or a lot.
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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by Kejidog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:22 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:01 pm
Kejidog wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:43 pm
I don’t feel sorry at all for this guy. Sort of like the murder that covers up his crime runs away and then claims mental health issues. It is called responsibility and it still is in the dictionary. He stole an aircraft. And crashed it while acting like an idiot. The people that had to talk to him and worry about wether he was going to do a 911 will have to deal with that conversation for the rest of their lives. the people i sympathize with. Also the first respondes that have to cut his body out of the plane deserve our thoughts. He’s no hero. This PC bullshit is getting out of hand.
Hey I did not call him a hero. Maybe someone else did.
And I sure feel sorry for his family, too. I see you don't mention them.

Nice. Another one who loves to mock mental illness. Probably the same type of person that gets offended when a passenger doesn't salute your bars on your uniform. I know the type.

That's what I think, sport. I suggest growing up a little. Or a lot.

Rooke. Blo me. I am a ppl and could care less if snowflakes like you “respect me” or my “bars”. You don't like my opinion dont read it. Maybe reply with an ism tag that you sjw’s love to brand anyone who they disagree with
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Last edited by Kejidog on Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: SeaTac stolen plane

Post by rookiepilot » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:30 pm

Kejidog wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:22 pm


Rooke. Blo me. I am a ppl and could care less if snowflakes like you “respect me” or my “bars”. You don't like my opinion dont read it.


Got it. Same goes here.

I am the farthest from a snowflake dude, thats a laugh. I'm just right. That's it.
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