Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Could have just flown at 1000' from KORD, but then drop down to 700 in the zone in order to stay 500 below the deck, right Roadrunnersmother? But then how do you cross over the field and join mid-downwind of you aren't at 1000 agl? A real quandary. I wish I was a pilot.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Roadrunnersmother wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:15 am8 sm and 1200' ceiling is VFR. One wouldn't even have to request Special VFR to enter the zone with that reported weather.Diadem wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 amRoadrunnersmother wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.Maybe this is why no one will hire you...lostaviator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am
If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.
From a speci minutes after the accident:
230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Let’s assume special vfr was an option for them. Please explain how they would legally descend from a cruise altitude and enter vfr conditions below the layer ?
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Even if they were visual, what are the chances their SOP’s would allow a night visual approach with no intrument guidance.
- youhavecontrol
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Special VFR sounds insane, but what about a circling approach? Would that even be a possibility in a B747? I'm guessing not just based on how massive they are.
"I found that Right Rudder you kept asking for."
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
It can be done but night circling in an OM will be covered and might be forbidden.youhavecontrol wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:33 pm Special VFR sounds insane, but what about a circling approach? Would that even be a possibility in a B747? I'm guessing not just based on how massive they are.
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
I have yet to work for an airline that allows circling approaches at circling minima. There is usually some kind of add 500 feet or make the FAF crossing your MDA kind of stuff. Though, circling a 747 would be kinda "fun"?telex wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:19 pmIt can be done but night circling in an OM will be covered and might be forbidden.youhavecontrol wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:33 pm Special VFR sounds insane, but what about a circling approach? Would that even be a possibility in a B747? I'm guessing not just based on how massive they are.
Side note... The weather I posted from the speci taken post accident was better then the hourly which had the SCT005 layer as a BKN005 layer. So we can probably stop talking about the whole "special vfr", circling stuff. Even if they COULD, the information they had at the time meant they had to a straight in to something.
And that runway.... It is one of the those runways that I am always extra attentive too after a long day, or long red eye. Short, sloped and we all know how the winds work around there.... a 10 knot tail wind component on the surface could very well be a 40 knot tailwind component until 50 feet.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Now that I think about it... around the time of that accident, I was supposed to fly to Sydney and was looking at the GFA's which had a low level jet almost right over Halifax... moving East. The jet was 70kts with forecast moderate to severe turbulence and was supposed to be directly over Sydney at the time I was expected to arrive there. I certainly would not be surprised if wind shear was a factor. I saw the GFA and thought "nope" and changed my route.lostaviator wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:28 pm ...could very well be a 40 knot tailwind component until 50 feet.
"I found that Right Rudder you kept asking for."
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
All I could see in the original photos was the front of the plane. Must have been an exciting ride for the lobsters - wiping out 4 landing gears and breaking the fuselage.HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pmThere's an aerial pic in this article:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.4895103
Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Sure does look like that, but where is the gear?? It's 8 feet high. They must be sunk into the mud.HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm [quote=Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Wouldn't they be picking up lobsters in Halifax, not delivering them?All I could see in the original photos was the front of the plane. Must have been an exciting ride for the lobsters
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
"All I could see in the original photos was the front of the plane. Must have been an exciting ride for the lobsters - wiping out 4 landing gears and breaking the fuselage."
Shaken, not stirred! Must have had some Chinese ware on board to supply the local Walmart to make it a productive inbound ?
Shaken, not stirred! Must have had some Chinese ware on board to supply the local Walmart to make it a productive inbound ?
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
I was wondering that myself - best guess is that it folded backwards but stayed attached for long enough that it's underneath the fuselage...? I can't imagine it would stay on (attached in the usual manner) and yet bury itself that far into the turfswordfish wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:03 pmSure does look like that, but where is the gear?? It's 8 feet high. They must be sunk into the mud.HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm [quote=Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Even with the “better” 1200 ft ceiling after the accident, a visual approach was completely out of the question as ATC minimums for a visual are much higher than 1200 ft (these minimums are not published). A contact approach would have been a legal option, but I will not comment as to the wisdom of a contact approach in a 747 under those conditions.
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Look for lobster on sale at Walmart this week, since they couldn't get to China timely!
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
There is a lot of debris balled up around the aft end and in this photo you see one of the gear trucks at the very left:HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:52 pmI was wondering that myself - best guess is that it folded backwards but stayed attached for long enough that it's underneath the fuselage...? I can't imagine it would stay on (attached in the usual manner) and yet bury itself that far into the turfswordfish wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:03 pmSure does look like that, but where is the gear?? It's 8 feet high. They must be sunk into the mud.HiFlyChick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm [quote=Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org ... 0a1b07.jpg
I think HFC is right, the rest is back there somewhere with the antenna array, lights and a few other things that'll have to be replaced.
The TSB photos don't show much of the gear:
https://flic.kr/p/NYmGtP
Even with their misfortune, the crew was really lucky they stopped where they did, if they had made it to the road the stop wouldn't have been quite as gentle. You don't see it but there's a fair slope down into the ditch between the fence & the road.
D
Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Yup, the importer has an office at YHZ.
D
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Grapevine says that they weren't allowed RNAV per Ops Specs.Gilles Hudicourt wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:28 amI checked the plates. There are many variables, don’t know what their equipment and ops specs allow. Plus, one would also need to see the Notams, in case these modified the published minimums.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
I wonder if they'll eventually realize that GPS approaches are quite often the safest approach available. TC is making the industry less safe by the cumbersome process operators are required to undergo to gain GPS and LPV approach approval.
- rookiepilot
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
Non commercial pilot's opinion:
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018
If the only useable approach has a tailwind component the exceeds the maximum then it's time to find another airport imho.rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:31 pm Non commercial pilot's opinion:
Lots of room for an arrestor bed, seems to my eye.
Canada: Few of those beds I'm aware of. (any????)
Major runways without an ILS approach, and operator can't use RNAV. Heck, even LPV approaches aren't certainly everywhere-- yet.
ADS B? Happening or not?
Leading the way in aviation safety!
NOT.
See I don't always blame the airline --
Unclear if landing performance was calculated but when this is marginal you have to be on speed and touch down at the correct point. High speed/long landing is a go-around.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business