Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

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Jet Jockey
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#26 Post by Jet Jockey » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:07 pm

At the time of the landing they had an almost direct tailwind at 16kts gusting 21kts as reported by the tower on final.

The tower even questioned them with these winds if they were OK to land on RWY 14.
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HiFlyChick
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#27 Post by HiFlyChick » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:14 pm

Jet Jockey wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:07 pm
At the time of the landing they had an almost direct tailwind at 16kts gusting 21kts as reported by the tower on final.

The tower even questioned them with these winds if they were OK to land on RWY 14.
It wasn't from 230T/250M then?
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Inverted2
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#28 Post by Inverted2 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:38 pm

HiFlyChick wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:57 pm
Inverted2 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:38 am
I don’t get why this airport waited till fall to do runway construction when all the fall windstorms show up. Now there won’t likely be any ILS approaches for a week or 2 till they clean up that giant mess.
They've been working on taxiways since the summer, and the runway for a while, too (can't recall exactly when they started, though). Earlier than that and they're into fog season, which tends to be more of a problem than the fall winds - it's just been windier this year than usual (or should I say there's been more windy days).
Do you know what they're doing to runway 05/23? I fly in there regularly and I never see anyone actually working on it. I know they are re-paving some of the taxiways.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#29 Post by Lightchop » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:43 pm

Is there a reason why the YHZ Live ATC feed exists from 0800-0830Z but from 0830-0930Z (the time this happened) it's "not found?"
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#30 Post by Jet Jockey » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:46 pm

HiFlyChick wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:14 pm
Jet Jockey wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:07 pm
At the time of the landing they had an almost direct tailwind at 16kts gusting 21kts as reported by the tower on final.

The tower even questioned them with these winds if they were OK to land on RWY 14.
It wasn't from 230T/250M then?
Tower: „SkyCube 4854, tailwind now 280 at 16 confirm gusting 21, confirm runway 14 still acceptable ?“

GG 4854: „Confirm..ah, still for 14.“

Tower: „SkyCube 4854 heavy, tower roger, wind 260 at 16 gusting 21 cleared to land on 14.“

GG 4854: „Cleared to land..ah.. affir..clear to land on 14, SkyCube 4854 heavy“

Tower: „Roger.“

…Tower: „SkyCube 4854 do you read ?“

GG 4854: „Halifax Tower, SkyCube 5854 is off the runway. Requesting full emergency assistance.“

Tower: „SkyCube 4854 Roger, emergency has been activated.“

At about 04:40L, about 30 minutes before the accident landing, Cargojet B757F (CJT626) landed on runway 14.
At about 04:50L, about 25 minutes before the accident landing, Morningstar (FDX) B757F (MAL8062) landed on runway 23.
At about 04:52L, about 23 minutes before the accident landing, a Learjet 35A landed on runway 23.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#31 Post by HiFlyChick » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:41 pm

Inverted2 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:38 pm
Do you know what they're doing to runway 05/23? I fly in there regularly and I never see anyone actually working on it. I know they are re-paving some of the taxiways.
I haven't actually seen the men working, just heard the warning of work on the runway prior to the displaced threshold. The HIAA site has info:

https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2018/09/hal ... -underway/

At least alpha taxiway is open now so you don't have to wait to get out on 23 to taxi around the closed area.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#32 Post by medi-whacked » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:40 am

Fatigue and/or impairment may play into this. IMHO.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#33 Post by lostaviator » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:43 am

The live ATC archive does exist.... You want YHZ Twr archive for Nov 7 at 0900z.

Last wind by tower 260 16 -21 (10 knot tail, 19 cross component) at 2:50 into the clip.

Sounds like there was something else going on in that flight deck. Lots of radio hesitation.

Kudos to the controller - lots of trial balloons and calm throughout.
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Last edited by lostaviator on Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#34 Post by CWhyYZ » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:31 am

lostaviator wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:43 am
The live ATC archive does exist.... You want YHZ Twr archive for Nov 9 at 0900z.

Last wind by tower 260 16 -21 (10 knot tail, 19 cross component) at 2:50 into the clip.

Sounds like there was something else going on in that flight deck. Lots of radio hesitation.

Kudos to the controller - lots of trial balloons and calm throughout.
Lightchop is spinning in circles right now looking for crash audio on Nov 9.

I agree, there was some hesitation in the flight deck by the pilots response. His inflection in his voice almost sounded like he was asking a question when he read back the clearance.

Here lightchop:
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/cyhz/ ... -0900Z.mp3
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#35 Post by lostaviator » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:17 am

CWhyYZ wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:31 am
lostaviator wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:43 am
The live ATC archive does exist.... You want YHZ Twr archive for Nov 9 at 0900z.

Last wind by tower 260 16 -21 (10 knot tail, 19 cross component) at 2:50 into the clip.

Sounds like there was something else going on in that flight deck. Lots of radio hesitation.

Kudos to the controller - lots of trial balloons and calm throughout.
Lightchop is spinning in circles right now looking for crash audio on Nov 9.

I agree, there was some hesitation in the flight deck by the pilots response. His inflection in his voice almost sounded like he was asking a question when he read back the clearance.

Here lightchop:
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/cyhz/ ... -0900Z.mp3
Oops. That’s what happens when I post pre-coffee. Haha.

Or maybe I did it on purpose because I find spoon-feeding publicly available answers to people so very very annoying (what was the weather, what are the notams in yhz, etc etc.) :twisted:
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#36 Post by swordfish » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:09 pm

In the photographs available, the gear is not visible. Was the gear DOWN? begging the question that how did all 4 get wiped off.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#38 Post by DanWEC » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:45 pm

Are crews getting kickbacks from the guys who repair ILS arrays in YHZ?? Keeping them busy!! ;)
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#39 Post by trygg » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm

New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#40 Post by C.W.E. » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:32 pm

Would that be considered a " long hard landing " ?
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#41 Post by HiFlyChick » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:21 pm

swordfish wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:09 pm
In the photographs available, the gear is not visible. Was the gear DOWN? begging the question that how did all 4 get wiped off.
There's an aerial pic in this article:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.4895103

Judging from the tire tracks off the end of the runway, it looks like the gear were all down
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#42 Post by telex » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:08 pm

trygg wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm
New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.
Welcome to the forum.

Most flightplans have an alternate airport. Always another option albeit not the popular one.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#43 Post by rookiepilot » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:34 pm

trygg wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm
New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.
Can't possibly have an ILS to each runway at one of Canada's major airports?
That would actually make sense.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#44 Post by Eric Janson » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:18 pm

trygg wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm
New to the forum... if the aircraft wasn't equipped with GPS then there was no option but to use RWY14. RWY32 is RNAV only. Same thing for Air Canada Flt 624 in 2016. No GPS. RWY 14 is uphill, and landing a very light 747 is very a different beast than landing close to MLW.
I don't fly this Type but I believe GPS is installed as standard.

The issue may be that they didn't have certification. I'm sure this will be covered in the report.

My Airline doesn't have approval for LPV or RNP approaches just RNAV(GNSS).
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#45 Post by Teeg » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:27 am

YHZ is working on the Overrun area at the threshold of 23, hence displaced threshold btw threshold 23 and just past taxiway E. Generally a pain in the ass without the CAT2 on our only RWY. Therefore the only non GPS approach is the ILS14; every other approach, b/c of this construction, is a GPS approach (LOC05 closed obviously).

Seems to me, long haul cargo, one coupled ILS approach, maybe they were empty, they shot the only "safe" approach. As mentioned before, this particular flight is in/out of YHZ regularly in the fall, and fall can be crap weather in YHZ.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#46 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am

Teeg wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:27 am
YHZ is working on the Overrun area at the threshold of 23, hence displaced threshold btw threshold 23 and just past taxiway E. Generally a pain in the ass without the CAT2 on our only RWY. Therefore the only non GPS approach is the ILS14; every other approach, b/c of this construction, is a GPS approach (LOC05 closed obviously).

Seems to me, long haul cargo, one coupled ILS approach, maybe they were empty, they shot the only "safe" approach. As mentioned before, this particular flight is in/out of YHZ regularly in the fall, and fall can be crap weather in YHZ.

Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#47 Post by Diadem » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am
Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am
rigpiggy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:35 am
Anybody have the wx for the accident time?
If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#48 Post by lostaviator » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:09 am

Diadem wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am
Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am
rigpiggy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:35 am
Anybody have the wx for the accident time?
If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
:prayer:
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#49 Post by Roadrunnersmother » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:15 am

Diadem wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am
Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am
rigpiggy wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:35 am
Anybody have the wx for the accident time?
If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
8 sm and 1200' ceiling is VFR. One wouldn't even have to request Special VFR to enter the zone with that reported weather.
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Re: Skylease Cargo 747 Runway Overrun YHZ Nov 7, 2018

#50 Post by telex » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:22 am

Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:15 am
Diadem wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:41 am
Roadrunnersmother wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am
Weather was VFR. ATC vectors for visual 23 or 32 would have be more wise.
lostaviator wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 am


If you google metar history there’s a website that stores every report.

From a speci minutes after the accident:

230-11-g18. 8sm. -RA BR. SCT005. BKN012. 13/13
Maybe this is why no one will hire you...
8 sm and 1200' ceiling is VFR. One wouldn't even have to request Special VFR to enter the zone with that reported weather.
Do you have any guidance on maneuvering a 744 visually with the intent to land when the reported ceiling is below you?
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