Air Tindi Flight Missing

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C.W.E.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by C.W.E. »

You have quite the God complex if you think the idea of you making a mistake is an insult. How about the Air Nootka Crash? Another friend, another old timer, another ball of aluminum.
Well whatever porcscord, if it makes you feel better thinking I have a God complex fill your shoes.

As I understand that accident he decided to climb into cloud and flew it into the higher terrain, are you suggesting it was because of his age he did that?
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Last edited by C.W.E. on Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Old fella »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:07 pm So, were these guys shooting an approach of some kind? Are we willing to admit they descended below safe altitudes? Any indication of an altimeter setting error? Or, are we just too touchy freely to learn from this?
Illya
Didn’t know you shoot approach procedures, I though you flew them. “Shooting” approaches is the silliest aviation acronym in my view.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by digits_ »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:24 pm
Funny thing is.....it's not the "old farts" rolling airplanes into aluminum foil balls.
Illya
Wrong.

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/resea ... ge60_4.pdf

While experience does initially decrease the accidents -as one would expect- the accident rate does go up again past the 55 year mark. So the "old farts" have their fair share of accidents. It is slightly lower than the 18 year olds, but one would have hoped that decades of aviation experience would make one significantly safer than a 20 year old, and that is, unfortunately, not the case.

The 703/704 accidents might have a higher accident rate in the younger years in Canada, but that is to be expected since the majority of pilots move out of the northern 703/704 ops as soon as they can, generally at a younger age.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

I do tend (of late) to avoid posting here. Always turns into a hissy fit. But when I see a third fatal accident in a short (relatively speaking) period of time, involving three types I'm pretty damn familiar with, involving the same company, I weigh in. Something is being done wrong, somewhere along the line, by somebody.
Keep your heads in the sand all you like, but somebody's dropping the ball here.
Illya
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Old fella wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:02 pm
Illya Kuryakin wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:07 pm So, were these guys shooting an approach of some kind? Are we willing to admit they descended below safe altitudes? Any indication of an altimeter setting error? Or, are we just too touchy freely to learn from this?
Illya
Didn’t know you shoot approach procedures, I though you flew them. “Shooting” approaches is the silliest aviation acronym in my view.
It is a strange one for sure. We do use it, and I've always wondered why. Why do we SQUAK ident? Both have their roots in Latin, meaning too lazy to get real jobs.
Illya
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Maynard »

Some people say wheels down in 10, some people say shooting the approach. All the same.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by youhavecontrol »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:01 am
Didn’t know you shoot approach procedures, I though you flew them. “Shooting” approaches is the silliest aviation acronym in my view.
It is a strange one for sure. We do use it, and I've always wondered why. Why do we SQUAK ident? Both have their roots in Latin, meaning too lazy to get real jobs.
Illya
[/quote]

The term Squawk came from the original code term for operating a transponder during WW2. The transponder was called a 'Parrot' by the English and friendly aircraft were told to "Squawk your Parrot" to identify who was friend or foe on radar. ( https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2 ... ansponder/ )

Also, Shooting is not an acronym, it's an informal verb in this context. :wink:
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by godsrcrazy »

Typical AV Canada forum. Speculation and off topic postings. I see no value in this topic as it has gone totally off topic.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by C.W.E. »

Typical AV Canada forum. Speculation and off topic postings. I see no value in this topic as it has gone totally off topic.
Can you explain what you are saying?

The topic was about an accident, do you think accidents are topics that should not be discussed?
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

godsrcrazy wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:09 pm Typical AV Canada forum. Speculation and off topic postings. I see no value in this topic as it has gone totally off topic.
Pity. We'll miss your contributions.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Old fella »

youhavecontrol wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:32 pm
Illya Kuryakin wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:01 am
Didn’t know you shoot approach procedures, I though you flew them. “Shooting” approaches is the silliest aviation acronym in my view.
It is a strange one for sure. We do use it, and I've always wondered why. Why do we SQUAK ident? Both have their roots in Latin, meaning too lazy to get real jobs.
Illya
The term Squawk came from the original code term for operating a transponder during WW2. The transponder was called a 'Parrot' by the English and friendly aircraft were told to "Squawk your Parrot" to identify who was friend or foe on radar. ( https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2 ... ansponder/ )

Also, Shooting is not an acronym, it's an informal verb in this context. :wink:
[/quote]

Yes, you are correct on acronym which is of course by definition an abbreviation of a word or name. Certainly out of context on my part. Permit me to revise with “shooting approaches is the silliest aviation phraseology in my view”.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by godsrcrazy »

C.W.E. wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:54 pm
Typical AV Canada forum. Speculation and off topic postings. I see no value in this topic as it has gone totally off topic.
Can you explain what you are saying?

The topic was about an accident, do you think accidents are topics that should not be discussed?
Yes the topic is about an accident. What does things like squak ident our definition of shooting an approach have to do with the accident.

Posting speculation on this Topic is in my opinion insensitive to not just the family but also fellow employees. I am sure a lot of people in this industry that knew these gentlemen ready this.

I have been involved in a company that has had an accident. Trust me when I say there were a lot of people that had sleepless nights. AME’s wondering if it’s a bolt they didn’t Lock. Dispatchers wondering if there is something they didn’t see. Chief pilots and training pilots wondering if they missed something. The list goes on right down to the ramp guy that watch them leave.

If you want to speculate then do it under another topic name. As I mentioned earlier I doubt any of you know the attitude of the aircraft when it hit the ground. So how can you speculate weather he was doing and approach, Iced up and fell out of the ky, our just got disorientated and spudded it in.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Old fella »

godsrcrazy wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:50 am
C.W.E. wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:54 pm
Typical AV Canada forum. Speculation and off topic postings. I see no value in this topic as it has gone totally off topic.
Can you explain what you are saying?

The topic was about an accident, do you think accidents are topics that should not be discussed?
Yes the topic is about an accident. What does things like squak ident our definition of shooting an approach have to do with the accident.

Posting speculation on this Topic is in my opinion insensitive to not just the family but also fellow employees. I am sure a lot of people in this industry that knew these gentlemen ready this.

I have been involved in a company that has had an accident. Trust me when I say there were a lot of people that had sleepless nights. AME’s wondering if it’s a bolt they didn’t Lock. Dispatchers wondering if there is something they didn’t see. Chief pilots and training pilots wondering if they missed something. The list goes on right down to the ramp guy that watch them leave.

If you want to speculate then do it under another topic name. As I mentioned earlier I doubt any of you know the attitude of the aircraft when it hit the ground. So how can you speculate weather he was doing and approach, Iced up and fell out of the ky, our just got disorientated and spudded it in.
Well sir/madam..... you do have options. Mute and/or block the “offenders” as you perceive them to be, the ole FB/Twitter action if you will. You are not the only one here who has/was involved with a company that went through the sad circumstances of a fatal accident. Speculation/commentary is part of the discourse associated with this site always was, always will be. What may be a tad “offensive” to some could be also seen “ as having merit” to others. If it gets out of hand the moderator will step in as they have in the past. And finally the irony, the sad/tragic death of two well liked pilots and the term “shooting “ the approach. Shooting is defined as discharging a projectile from a weapon and the person who does that is a shooter. To the non-aviation uninitiated person(s) and there are very many, this just could raise eyebrows. Anyway enough from me.

Cheers mate
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by digits_ »

godsrcrazy wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:50 am If you want to speculate then do it under another topic name. As I mentioned earlier I doubt any of you know the attitude of the aircraft when it hit the ground. So how can you speculate weather he was doing and approach, Iced up and fell out of the ky, our just got disorientated and spudded it in.
I sympathize with the people affected, the whole company basically, but if planes crash, people are curious as to what the cause is. Some just for kicks, but most pilots want to learn about and avoid the same mistakes. Our investigating procedures by the TSB are pretty lengthy. Not only because they want to be thorough, but mainly because all parties have the chance to participate and defend and/or explain themselves. The downside of this, is that pilots don't want to wait that long to figure out what happened. Speculation is a logical consequence. I'd rather have the speculation happen on an aviation forum, instead of an instagram or facebook post. The beauty of speculation, is that people are not just trying to solve what happened to the actual crashed airplane, but are also solving and preventing a plethora of other possible accidents. From that point of view, the speculation is sometimes more edcuational than the actual crash.

That being said, if people start posting opinions or suspicious as facts, which could be picked up by the media, then they are going a bit too far.

Even if you think you know what happened, unless you were in the cockpit at the time of the crash, you are never sure. And in the unlikely event you do know exactly what happened, correctly determining why it happened, is a whole different investigation. It's important to remember that before putting all the blame on the pilots. If I ever have an accident, I'd like people to give me the benefit of the doubt as well.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by lownslow »

Perhaps the forum can have a Speculation section visible only to members. That ought to be a good compromise, no?
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by goingnowherefast »

Well said digits_

This thread is full of assumptions and opinions parading as facts. That's what I object to.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by C.W.E. »

And finally the irony, the sad/tragic death of two well liked pilots and the term “shooting “ the approach. Shooting is defined as discharging a projectile from a weapon and the person who does that is a shooter. To the non-aviation uninitiated person(s) and there are very many, this just could raise eyebrows. Anyway enough from me.
When shooting approaches I really liked the Turbo Commander for slam dunk approaches, in flight idle that sucker really went down. :mrgreen:
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by shimmydampner »

If the little bits and pieces I've heard about this crash are revealed to be true, I hope Ilya (or Doc or whoever he is lately) enjoys the taste of crow because there will be a big plate of it for him to eat. Disparaging two young deceased aviators would be a bad look, even for him.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

Well we have a third fatal accident in a short period. Ask about it and I’m “disparaging two young deceased avaitors......”. Yup. Okay. If that’s how you want to spin it there. I see an issue much larger. If I was working anywhere that had two fatals in the same period...I’d be long gone. Three? That’s bigger than the accidents themselves.
Illya
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing

Post by Meatservo »

Illya Kuryakin, what are the three recent fatal accidents you are talking about? Other than this latest one, I can only think of the Caravan that crashed several years ago. You know, the one where the pilot was high on drugs. What's the third?
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