Frig off IllyaIllya Kuryakin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:45 pm Were these guys shooting an approach? Were they enroute? Very few details. This company had a fatal C208 accident not all that long ago. No red flags here.
Illya
Air Tindi Flight Missing
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Well Peakbagger, that’s about the depth of a reply I’ve come to expect. Care to field the question? Or is “frig off” pretty much it for a deep thinker like yourself.
Illya
Illya
Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then.
Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
His question was rational.Illya Kuryakin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:45 pm
Were these guys shooting an approach? Were they enroute? Very few details. This company had a fatal C208 accident not all that long ago. No red flags here.
Illya
But this is not.
Frig off Illya
Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Two pilots died, two people who had friends and family and your question was framed with an accusation of “red flags”
If I knew these pilots, my response to you likely would’ve been the same.
With absolutely no idea how this happened, a deep thinker like yourself should realize an insinuation like that would provoke such a response, no?
If I knew these pilots, my response to you likely would’ve been the same.
With absolutely no idea how this happened, a deep thinker like yourself should realize an insinuation like that would provoke such a response, no?
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
I'm sad to hear of this, and having flown the 200 a lot I feel it's natural to have questions. To the Tindi family I'm sorry for your loss.
The flight was CYZF to CEM3, 87 nm. That's a pretty short leg to do an IFR departure and set up for an RNAV GPS IAP, assuming that's what they did. That's what a 0.3 air time, hardly worth bringing the gear up. Looking at the location on Marian Lake, (from the CBC article) I'm curious what they were doing north of track. The flight is basically a straight in for runway 28 via OVDOM. If they departed off 34, and then headed north BPOC then direct for IMIVO, that could explain them being roughly 8 nm north of the direct track.
Lots of assumptions on my part, but it's what I'd have been doing if I were on that flight. Ball parking that spot from the CBC article, they were about 20 nm from IF IMEVO, so likely were still doing 250 Kts, probably just powering back and thinking about drag for the approach. The 100 nm safe is 3900, cold temp corrected to about 4300' (-20 ish), but realistically the 100 nm safe is higher because of the 11 800 AMA for rocks to the west of there, so knowing the local terrain like these guys surely did it's not crazy to think they'd be down to the 25 safe 5 miles early which is 2400' corrected to 2610'.
I don't see anything telling here. Unless they went VFR, in which case I'm not knowledgeable of local customs. What was the wx doing other than -23 and windy? It was daylight by then I think.
The flight was CYZF to CEM3, 87 nm. That's a pretty short leg to do an IFR departure and set up for an RNAV GPS IAP, assuming that's what they did. That's what a 0.3 air time, hardly worth bringing the gear up. Looking at the location on Marian Lake, (from the CBC article) I'm curious what they were doing north of track. The flight is basically a straight in for runway 28 via OVDOM. If they departed off 34, and then headed north BPOC then direct for IMIVO, that could explain them being roughly 8 nm north of the direct track.
Lots of assumptions on my part, but it's what I'd have been doing if I were on that flight. Ball parking that spot from the CBC article, they were about 20 nm from IF IMEVO, so likely were still doing 250 Kts, probably just powering back and thinking about drag for the approach. The 100 nm safe is 3900, cold temp corrected to about 4300' (-20 ish), but realistically the 100 nm safe is higher because of the 11 800 AMA for rocks to the west of there, so knowing the local terrain like these guys surely did it's not crazy to think they'd be down to the 25 safe 5 miles early which is 2400' corrected to 2610'.
I don't see anything telling here. Unless they went VFR, in which case I'm not knowledgeable of local customs. What was the wx doing other than -23 and windy? It was daylight by then I think.
Last edited by co-joe on Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Risky question here. What was the experience level of the pilots? Give or take.
Illya
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
You'd be quite the cowboy taking a king air 200 into snowy Whati's short strip for RWY28 with a brisk east wind.
Likely north of track due to setting up for RWY10.
Hard to believe you fly a 200 and survive being a cowboy like you are.
Likely north of track due to setting up for RWY10.
Hard to believe you fly a 200 and survive being a cowboy like you are.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
The investigators are struggling through 4 ft deep snow in -35*C. Lets give it a few more days and see what the professional investigators have to say. Internet speculators have no credibility and are not helpful.
I want to know what happened as much as anybody, but we have near zero information to figure out the answers.
I want to know what happened as much as anybody, but we have near zero information to figure out the answers.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Aren't you the guy who thought that 747 should have flown VFR at 1000' from Chicago to Halifax?Roadrunnersmother wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:45 pm You'd be quite the cowboy taking a king air 200 into snowy Whati's short strip for RWY28 with a brisk east wind.
Likely north of track due to setting up for RWY10.
Hard to believe you fly a 200 and survive being a cowboy like you are.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
im guessing you'll be having a time out soon.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
I didn't connect any dots, or suggest any wrongdoing by the crew and I certainly didn't say I'd take a big tailwind into there. I'm just looking to paint the picture of what a normal flight from yzf to em3 would be like.
Is this Metar representative of the wx they would have faced? I got it from here: https://www.ogimet.com/display_metars2. ... &send=send
METAR CYZF 301600Z 09015KT 1SM R34/P6000FT/N -SN DRSN OVC016 M22/M25 A2976 RMK SC8 SLP111=
So Direct GOXAM for the RNAV (GNSS) RWY 10 would likely be what they would have been doing?
Is this Metar representative of the wx they would have faced? I got it from here: https://www.ogimet.com/display_metars2. ... &send=send
METAR CYZF 301600Z 09015KT 1SM R34/P6000FT/N -SN DRSN OVC016 M22/M25 A2976 RMK SC8 SLP111=
So Direct GOXAM for the RNAV (GNSS) RWY 10 would likely be what they would have been doing?
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Does a BE20 even need a CVR? If they commit to a low enough pax count there shouldn't be a requirement for one.
Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Any 200's I've ever flown were always equipped with CVR's.
Keep the dirty side down.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Why would they descend down to 2400' 25nm back, let alone 5 miles before that? That's way below any sort of reasonable profile.co-joe wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:20 pm I'm sad to hear of this, and having flown the 200 a lot I feel it's natural to have questions. To the Tindi family I'm sorry for your loss.
The flight was CYZF to CEM3, 87 nm. That's a pretty short leg to do an IFR departure and set up for an RNAV GPS IAP, assuming that's what they did. That's what a 0.3 air time, hardly worth bringing the gear up. Looking at the location on Marian Lake, (from the CBC article) I'm curious what they were doing north of track. The flight is basically a straight in for runway 28 via OVDOM. If they departed off 34, and then headed north BPOC then direct for IMIVO, that could explain them being roughly 8 nm north of the direct track.
Lots of assumptions on my part, but it's what I'd have been doing if I were on that flight. Ball parking that spot from the CBC article, they were about 20 nm from IF IMEVO, so likely were still doing 250 Kts, probably just powering back and thinking about drag for the approach. The 100 nm safe is 3900, cold temp corrected to about 4300' (-20 ish), but realistically the 100 nm safe is higher because of the 11 800 AMA for rocks 180 nm west of there, so knowing the local terrain like these guys surely did it's not crazy to think they'd be down to the 25 safe 5 miles early which is 2400' corrected to 2610'.
I don't see anything telling here. Unless they went VFR, in which case I'm not knowledgeable of local customs. What was the wx doing other than -23 and windy? It was daylight by then I think.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
I was thinking they were lining up for the west bound runway, in which case they crashed 20 miles from the IAF.
But I was wrong since I couldn't find Wx and nobody volunteered it. Assuming runway 10 had favourable wind, and being direct goxam they would still have been at cruise altitude.
But I was wrong since I couldn't find Wx and nobody volunteered it. Assuming runway 10 had favourable wind, and being direct goxam they would still have been at cruise altitude.
The only real reason to descend early would be if they thought they could get in visually. Odds are these boys flew here often, and knew the local terrain.Icamefromspace wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:47 pm
Why would they descend down to 2400' 25nm back, let alone 5 miles before that? That's way below any sort of reasonable profile.
Last edited by co-joe on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
Sadly we see these accidents happening far to often.
It has been this way for as long as I have been flying and it does not seem to get better.
It has been this way for as long as I have been flying and it does not seem to get better.
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Re: Air Tindi Flight Missing
The crew would have seen this TAF, and the one that came out 26 minutes later.
TAF AMD CYZF 301112Z 3011/3106 12015G25KT 6SM -SN SCT020 OVC040
TEMPO 3011/3019 2SM -SN SCT008 OVC020
PROB30 3014/3017 1SM -SN BLSN OVC008 FM301900 11015G25KT
3SM -SN SCT012 OVC020
TEMPO 3019/3106 6SM -SN OVC025
BECMG 3100/3102 10008KT RMK NXT FCST BY 301200Z=
TAF CYZF 301138Z 3012/3112 11015G25KT 6SM -SN SCT020 OVC030
TEMPO 3012/3019 2SM -SN SCT008 OVC020
PROB30 3014/3017 1SM -SN BLSN OVC008 FM301900 11015G25KT
3SM -SN SCT012 OVC020
TEMPO 3019/3106 6SM -SN OVC025
BECMG 3100/3102 10008KT FM310600 06008KT 5SM -SN OVC020
RMK NXT FCST BY 301800Z=
Odds are the crew wouldn't have seen this TAF;
TAF AMD CYZF 301549Z 3015/3112 10015G25KT 3/4SM -SN OVC012
TEMPO 3015/3018 3SM -SN OVC020 FM301800 11015G25KT 2SM
-SN SCT012 OVC020
TEMPO 3018/3021 6SM -SN OVC025 FM302100 10010KT 4SM -SN
FEW012 OVC020
TEMPO 3021/3106 P6SM -SN BKN025 OVC040 FM310600 06008KT
5SM -SN OVC020 RMK NXT FCST BY 301800Z=
TAF AMD CYZF 301112Z 3011/3106 12015G25KT 6SM -SN SCT020 OVC040
TEMPO 3011/3019 2SM -SN SCT008 OVC020
PROB30 3014/3017 1SM -SN BLSN OVC008 FM301900 11015G25KT
3SM -SN SCT012 OVC020
TEMPO 3019/3106 6SM -SN OVC025
BECMG 3100/3102 10008KT RMK NXT FCST BY 301200Z=
TAF CYZF 301138Z 3012/3112 11015G25KT 6SM -SN SCT020 OVC030
TEMPO 3012/3019 2SM -SN SCT008 OVC020
PROB30 3014/3017 1SM -SN BLSN OVC008 FM301900 11015G25KT
3SM -SN SCT012 OVC020
TEMPO 3019/3106 6SM -SN OVC025
BECMG 3100/3102 10008KT FM310600 06008KT 5SM -SN OVC020
RMK NXT FCST BY 301800Z=
Odds are the crew wouldn't have seen this TAF;
TAF AMD CYZF 301549Z 3015/3112 10015G25KT 3/4SM -SN OVC012
TEMPO 3015/3018 3SM -SN OVC020 FM301800 11015G25KT 2SM
-SN SCT012 OVC020
TEMPO 3018/3021 6SM -SN OVC025 FM302100 10010KT 4SM -SN
FEW012 OVC020
TEMPO 3021/3106 P6SM -SN BKN025 OVC040 FM310600 06008KT
5SM -SN OVC020 RMK NXT FCST BY 301800Z=
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