Meatservo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:13 pmIllya Kuryakin, what are the three recent fatal accidents you are talking about? Other than this latest one, I can only think of the Caravan that crashed several years ago. You know, the one where the pilot was high on drugs. What's the third?
There was no recent third fatal accident, lllya kuryakin spreading more BS on this forum.
Pity you take it personally there, but was there not a Twin Otter accident not all that long ago. Caravan with the pilot doped out of his mind doesn’t speak volumes on company culture to you? Perhaps it should?
Illya
Meatservo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:13 pmIllya Kuryakin, what are the three recent fatal accidents you are talking about? Other than this latest one, I can only think of the Caravan that crashed several years ago. You know, the one where the pilot was high on drugs. What's the third?
There was no recent third fatal accident, lllya kuryakin spreading more BS on this forum.
Pity you take it personally there, but was there not a Twin Otter accident not all that long ago. Caravan with the pilot doped out of his mind doesn’t speak volumes on company culture to you? Perhaps it should?
Illya
I think you're confusing the Arctic Sunwest Twin Otter that crashed in yellowknife, not Tindi.
"According to Jeremy Warkentin, technical investigator for the TSB, one attitude indicator wasn't functioning when the flight took off, but the crew flew anyway. The second indicator failed 84 seconds before impact."
Did these guys have instrument ratings?
In the ground 84 seconds after no attitude indicators. Mind blowing they couldn't keep in air with rest of instrumentation.
Must be more to it than this. Basic altimeter and DG for straight and level in IMC will keep you alive.
Quite the training program this air tindi has.
That’s extremely disappointing to read.
I once had a vacuum pump fail, the CP wanted me to fly it to a maintenance base after the sun had already gone down. I told him no and after several back and forth and threats of firing me, I still said no. He hung up on me, then phoned back and demanded I be airborne the second the sun was up.
I flew the next morning, day vmc and guess what, the other vacuum pump quit 10 mins into my flight, one might wonder what the odds of that happening are. Pretty good if the cause is plugged filters and not mechanical failure. Needless to say, I made sure the CP knew he tried to kill me the night before, didn’t change him at all though, had several more run ins with him.
To this topic, it’s been awhile, anyone know if this aircraft had vacuum instruments?
Roadrunnersmother wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:33 pm
Did these guys have instrument ratings?
In the ground 84 seconds after no attitude indicators. Mind blowing they couldn't keep in air with rest of instrumentation.
Must be more to it than this. Basic altimeter and DG for straight and level in IMC will keep you alive.
Quite the training program this air tindi has.
I suspect when the AI fails in real life, it's a bit different from the instructor putting a post-it note over the AI. And the instrument rating flight test in Canada doesn't even test partial panel (although the IPC does).
Sad to see this... Lost of both attitude indicator shouldn't lead an aircraft descend as a rocket to the ground...
It's a good reminder for all of us to challenge ourselves and keep asking us the question "What would I do if ..." while up there in the flight levels.
How is it possible for the training industry and the regulator to allow the industry to have gotten to the stage where something like this can happen, assuming of course the latest info is correct?
mbav8r wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:36 pm
To this topic, it’s been awhile, anyone know if this aircraft had vacuum instruments?
Rumour on the street is that the FO instruments were steam driven and the captain’s were efis displays. Given that rumour, it’s possible that when the captain’s display failed, they might have had NO instruments, or just the very minimum standby instruments.
The other rumour, that bothers me greatly, is that the FO instruments had been faulty for some time. Not “discovered on the taxi out” of the accident flight. Supposedly crews had been complaining (snagging?) about them, but obviously to no avail.
Wouldn’t shock me to have Tindi vilify the crew when they likely pushed them out the door. After all, who wants to call Ekati at 7am to cancel or delay their crew change flight?
Lost an inverter climbing out of YDF dusk departure many years back, passed control over to right seat guy while I got inverter 2 up and going. Can’t remember how long that took but wx was decent , however if the right seat vacuum AI was u/s with a low vis and ceiling departure possibly would have made a few interesting moments for sure. I am not speculating on this particular accident though.
There but for the grace of God, go I.....trying to fly partial panel with instruments sort of working is difficult to the extreme. However this is why I am angry at TC that a 3rd AI, isn't required in SEIFR/MIFR airplanes in commercial service, and why they insist that we have a T+B, but I can'tput a G5 or equivalent with a battery backup.
Donald wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:11 pm
The other rumour, that bothers me greatly, is that the FO instruments had been faulty for some time. Not “discovered on the taxi out” of the accident flight. Supposedly crews had been complaining (snagging?) about them, but obviously to no avail.
If this proves to be true, then this could be an eye opening investigation. This sort of crap is common in the 703 world. Though typically not with something as important as primary flight instruments.
I remember a very similar situation years ago for a different 703 company, but with prop heat and respectable icing conditions. Captain was a get-er-done type and hesitant to say no. I nicely told him that I wasn't getting in the airplane. We sure heard about that.
possibly an argument for standardizing equipment and crew rules. When I flew 2 otter under 703 always had a stby horizon. Too many end runs is 703 ops. I find it totally ironic that the largely entry level of aviation operations operates under the slackest rules.
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
Roadrunnersmother wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:33 pm
Did these guys have instrument ratings?
In the ground 84 seconds after no attitude indicators. Mind blowing they couldn't keep in air with rest of instrumentation.
Must be more to it than this. Basic altimeter and DG for straight and level in IMC will keep you alive.
Quite the training program this air tindi has.
Dude, or dudette, just stop. What an exceptionally rude and cunty thing to say towards two dead men.
Amazes how people think this would be such an easy situation that could have been prevented with a turn bank indictor and a altimeter. For anyone that has flown in a situation were you can barely see your wing tip it isn't that easy. To begin with when you are on decent and realize the one and only attitude indicator has failed you could be in any attitude. Trying to figure out if you are right side up could be impossible. I wouldn't be quick to judge the pilots for not recovering.
Saying that i have a hard time believing in today day and age of MELS SMS and everything else anyone would depart in that day.
