Atlas Air 767

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mbav8r
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by mbav8r »

Source; AVHERALD,
“On Mar 5th 2019 the NTSB reported the download of the CVR was successfully completed, the last portion of the accident flight is available on the 2 hours' recording, the quality of the recording however is poor and it was difficult to determine what was being said, occasionally required advanced filter techniques. The aircraft was being vectored for an approach to Houston Intercontinental's airport's runway 26L. The NTSB stated: "Crew communications consistent with a loss control of the aircraft began approximately 18 seconds prior to the end of the recording." The FDR was also successfully read out, 54 hours of flight data spanning 17 flights were downloaded. The recorder stores about 350 parameters. The investigators are currently verifying and validating the FDR data. A transcript of the CVR is estimated to be compiled during the next week (Mar 11th and following).”
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phillyfan
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by phillyfan »

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LETUN
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by LETUN »

From NTSB, released today:
About 12:38, the controller informed the pilots that they would be past the area of weather in about 18 miles, that they could expect a turn to the north for a base leg to the approach to runway 26L, and that weather was clear west of the precipitation area. The pilots responded, “sounds good” and “ok.” At this time, radar and ADS-B returns indicated the airplane levelled briefly at 6,200 ft and then began a slight climb to 6,300 ft.

Also, about this time, the FDR data indicated that some small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
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mbav8r
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by mbav8r »

LETUN wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
About 12:38, the controller informed the pilots that they would be past the area of weather in about 18 miles, that they could expect a turn to the north for a base leg to the approach to runway 26L, and that weather was clear west of the precipitation area. The pilots responded, “sounds good” and “ok.” At this time, radar and ADS-B returns indicated the airplane levelled briefly at 6,200 ft and then began a slight climb to 6,300 ft.

Also, about this time, the FDR data indicated that some small vertical accelerations consistent with the airplane entering turbulence. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. (NTSB corrected their statement to reflect,” in response to elevator deflection”) The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
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Mick G
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by Mick G »

Can I get everyone's thoughts now that this has been released. I'm having a hard time with this one; wings level, max thrust and all. I'm finding myself drawing conclusions that I would rather not think about.
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av8ts
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by av8ts »

Something tells me that this investigation is going to go quiet til the final report
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Heliian
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by Heliian »

sounds like the autopilot went into antistall or go around and the elevator failed.

Turbulence broke the old plane and it crashed.
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telex
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by telex »

Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:32 am sounds like the autopilot went into antistall or go around and the elevator failed.

Turbulence broke the old plane and it crashed.
Can you expand on the antistall system and it's operation?

Is go around also a function? 6000' seems like an odd place for a go around?
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Heliian
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by Heliian »

telex wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:45 am
Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:32 am sounds like the autopilot went into antistall or go around and the elevator failed.

Turbulence broke the old plane and it crashed.
Can you expand on the antistall system and it's operation?

Is go around also a function? 6000' seems like an odd place for a go around?
no, i was just making something up as per the previous comment.

However, the quick release from ntsb said they hit turbulence and shortly after nose dived.
Why else would throttles go full?
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telex
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by telex »

Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 am
telex wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:45 am
Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:32 am sounds like the autopilot went into antistall or go around and the elevator failed.

Turbulence broke the old plane and it crashed.
Can you expand on the antistall system and it's operation?

Is go around also a function? 6000' seems like an odd place for a go around?
no, i was just making something up as per the previous comment.

However, the quick release from ntsb said they hit turbulence and shortly after nose dived.
Why else would throttles go full?
Does turbulence and a nose dive usually command full thrust?

I think it would be unusual for autothrottle to remain at full thrust in a nose dive?
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lostaviator
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by lostaviator »

telex wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:02 am
Heliian wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 am
telex wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:45 am Can you expand on the antistall system and it's operation?

Is go around also a function? 6000' seems like an odd place for a go around?
no, i was just making something up as per the previous comment.

However, the quick release from ntsb said they hit turbulence and shortly after nose dived.
Why else would throttles go full?
Does turbulence and a nose dive usually command full thrust?

I think it would be unusual for autothrottle to remain at full thrust in a nose dive?
Unless it was intentional.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by goingnowherefast »

Power causes most aircraft to pitch upward. Flight control problem, can't control pitch, so worth a shot with power. I could see it as a last ditch effort to try and save the day.

Hypothetical discussion, I know nothing of the actual details.
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C-GGGQ
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by C-GGGQ »

LETUN wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Seems to say it all right there....
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ReserveTank
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by ReserveTank »

C-GGGQ wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pm
LETUN wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Seems to say it all right there....
Possibly left the speed brake deployed from the crossing restriction. What speed does the 767 maintain if doing a LVL CHG? 245?
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telex
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by telex »

ReserveTank wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:54 pm
C-GGGQ wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pm
LETUN wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Seems to say it all right there....
Possibly left the speed brake deployed from the crossing restriction. What speed does the 767 maintain if doing a LVL CHG? 245?
It maintains whatever speed is selected in the speed window.
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C-GGGQ
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by C-GGGQ »

ReserveTank wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:54 pm
C-GGGQ wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pm
LETUN wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Seems to say it all right there....
Possibly left the speed brake deployed from the crossing restriction. What speed does the 767 maintain if doing a LVL CHG? 245?
It was the 49 degree nose down in response to control input. Not the 230 kts I was pointing to...
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pelmet
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by pelmet »

C-GGGQ wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:27 pm
LETUN wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:48 am From NTSB, released today:
. Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

FDR, radar, and ADS-B data indicated that the airplane entered a rapid descent on a heading of 270°, reaching an airspeed of about 430 knots. A security camera video (figure 4) captured the airplane in a steep, generally wings-level attitude until impact with the swamp. FDR data indicated that the airplane gradually pitched up to about 20 degrees nose down during the descent.
Seems to say it all right there....
I have been worried about this.
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Heliian
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by Heliian »

If you read the previous posts or reread the current linked article it was changed to read "elevator deflection" and not "column input".

If it was intentional, I'm sure you'll hear the other two people in the cockpit fighting it and case closed. If you hear all 3 wondering what the @#$! happened, then it would be something else.
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Bede
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by Bede »

This accident has me worried. Jump seater from other airline. Reminds me of fedex in the 80’s. I really hope that my fears are wrong.
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Re: Atlas Air 767

Post by telex »

Bede wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:12 pm This accident has me worried. Jump seater from other airline. Reminds me of fedex in the 80’s. I really hope that my fears are wrong.
The jump seater just got hired at a major (American?) and was supposed to start ground school shortly.
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