Probably only because Atlas didn't want to pay for better talent. I don't see how your "diversity" agenda plays in this but you come off sounding like a racist bigot.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:58 amNot when the system is flawed and people these days are hired in order to meet some sort of “diversity” quota instead of being hired based on their credentials and ability.AirportCoffee wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:39 am Yikes. You would think the system would catch up to him sooner or later with all of those failures
Atlas Air 767
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
Re: Atlas Air 767
- Old fella
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2402
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 am
- Location: I'm retired. I don't want to'I don't have to and you can't make me.
Re: Atlas Air 767
Indeed. With this individual’s checkered past and a demonstrated ability not to meet training standards with past employers, that would certainly follow him as he moved around. Not that I know much on large aircraft operations be they airlines or cargo haulers but was flabbergasted such a person was able to slip through the training cracks undetected until sadly......AirportCoffee wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:39 am Yikes. You would think the system would catch up to him sooner or later with all of those failures
-
- Rank 6
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:32 am
Re: Atlas Air 767
Old fella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:52 amIndeed. With this individual’s checkered past and a demonstrated ability not to meet training standards with past employers, that would certainly follow him as he moved around. Not that I know much on large aircraft operations be they airlines or cargo haulers but was flabbergasted such a person was able to slip through the training cracks undetected until sadly......AirportCoffee wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:39 am Yikes. You would think the system would catch up to him sooner or later with all of those failures
The reason he got through is answered in your own questions. If you know anything about any industry down south, aviation included, you'll understand that diversity drives the wages which drives the training programs. Airlines like Atlas force these guys through because they know he won't bother them about contract obligations, bonuses, pensions, etc. Cheaper to run him through the sim 6 more times and give him copious amounts of OE than to make contracts with competent people. If anyone has the diversity agenda, it's the industry.
At another ACMI, I watched them force guys through with 100 hours of OE, and they still had marginal performance on the aircraft. The check airmen were frustrated because they received edicts to "just get the check done." It's always the same type of guys. That's how it really is...no one is being bigoted. You just haven't seen it for yourself.
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1989
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am
Re: Atlas Air 767
I've seen white guys shoved through line checks too. Race doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. The company needs more pilots, they've already invested $X training dollars on extra sim sessions and extended line indoc, so just get it over with and get them flying the line.
Re: Atlas Air 767
What about the hiring process?goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:24 am I've seen white guys shoved through line checks too. Race doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1989
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am
Re: Atlas Air 767
Management accidently hires crap candidates on ocassion. HR botches the reference check, candidate exaggerates on resume or in interview, etc. I haven't seen an abnormal number of any race hired.
-
- Rank 11
- Posts: 4581
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
- Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME
Re: Atlas Air 767
Iv'e stalled one or two aircraft, never heard of one where 40 degrees nose down was required. What's the normal stall recovery pitch in the 767?
Re: Atlas Air 767
No it isn’t
Welcome to Redneck Airlines. We might not get you there but we'll get you close!
Re: Atlas Air 767
Nice attempt at an excuse to try and brush this under the carpet but it is too important to do so....goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:08 am Management accidently hires crap candidates on ocassion. HR botches the reference check, candidate exaggerates on resume or in interview, etc. I haven't seen an abnormal number of any race hired.
"Pilot Records Improvement Act of 1996 (PRIA)
PRIA requires that a hiring air carrier under 14 CFR parts 121 and 135, or a hiring air operator under 14 CFR part 125, request, receive, and evaluate certain information concerning a pilot/applicant’s training, experience, qualification, and safety background, before allowing that individual to begin service as a pilot with their company."
There was no botching the reference check. HR knew exactly the recorded training record of this person that they were hiring. I guarantee you there were other resumes in the pile for a widebody jet operation with 747's.
I know, I sound like a racist.
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1250
- Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am
Re: Atlas Air 767
It's not so much about the stall but about the brain interpreting acceleration as the aircraft pitching up.
A very good explanation here.
http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/av ... c-illusion
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business
Re: Atlas Air 767
In response to co-joe...."Iv'e stalled one or two aircraft, never heard of one where 40 degrees nose down was required. What's the normal stall recovery pitch in the 767? " It's been a while, but the procedure in the 767 was to apply max thrust and lower the nose... smoothly to about five degrees above the horizon and level the wings. At higher altitudes the pitch would be less than five degrees and if done above thirty thousand, it required a slight nose down attitude to allow for acceleration... no more than a couple of degrees and nowhere near forty degrees....
Re: Atlas Air 767
Although tragic as this accident is, I know of a person who fits this F/O’s description and past training records to a “T” and is now flying boxes around as well.
I don’t know if you omit past employers your failures still show up through FAA or TC checks.
I don’t know if you omit past employers your failures still show up through FAA or TC checks.
Let’s Go Brandon
Re: Atlas Air 767
Wow, that makes it even crazier. How can someone rated on B767 pitch 40 degrees nose down to recover from a stall if the recovery is as you stated.stone69 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:59 am In response to co-joe...."Iv'e stalled one or two aircraft, never heard of one where 40 degrees nose down was required. What's the normal stall recovery pitch in the 767? " It's been a while, but the procedure in the 767 was to apply max thrust and lower the nose... smoothly to about five degrees above the horizon and level the wings. At higher altitudes the pitch would be less than five degrees and if done above thirty thousand, it required a slight nose down attitude to allow for acceleration... no more than a couple of degrees and nowhere near forty degrees....
Re: Atlas Air 767
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
Re: Atlas Air 767
That's interesting to see. AC SOP for stall recovery is AP/AT OFF, lower the nose to break the stall before increasing thrust. The logic was that with the massive under slung engines, increasing the thrust exacerbates the nose high pitch so they wanted to esure the wing was flying first. This technique is complicated at low altitudes without the recovery time of altitude.
-
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1250
- Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am
Re: Atlas Air 767
The aircraft didn't stall.
TOGA was selected and the resulting rapid acceleration was interpreted as a pitch-up by the PF.
He then pushed forward instinctively which increased acceleration even more which the PF interpreted as the nose still pitching up resulting in him pushing the nose down even more.
This accident has nothing to do with stall or stall recovery imho.
It's Somatogravic Illusion.
TOGA was selected and the resulting rapid acceleration was interpreted as a pitch-up by the PF.
He then pushed forward instinctively which increased acceleration even more which the PF interpreted as the nose still pitching up resulting in him pushing the nose down even more.
This accident has nothing to do with stall or stall recovery imho.
It's Somatogravic Illusion.
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business