Air Canada YHZ

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av8ts
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Air Canada YHZ

Post by av8ts »

Any new information on this. Was it actually the runway or a taxiway as some people tweeted

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/ ... ld-289455/
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5042893

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/passengers- ... -1.4322480
The airline says the plane was unable to taxi passengers to the gate because of poor weather conditions at the airport.
When the TSB gets involved, its not just a case of getting stuck in the snow......
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NotDirty!
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by NotDirty! »

Gilles Hudicourt wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:29 am https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5042893

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/passengers- ... -1.4322480
The airline says the plane was unable to taxi passengers to the gate because of poor weather conditions at the airport.
When the TSB gets involved, its not just a case of getting stuck in the snow......
TSB got involved when it was reported that they hit a snow bank. “Snowbank” was actually a windrow, from what I hear. End of the runway was sheer ice, slid sideways as they weathercocked trying to turn off the runway. No control, but never left the pavement. No damage, fortunately.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by altiplano »

Sounds like a poor job by YHZ Airport:

- runway not adequately treated/monitored (broken down vehicle)
- runway conditions (100% ice) not reported to flight crew
- a runway (RW32)100% into wind has inadequate approach facilities
- after the fact support inadequate (2 hours to deplane)

Where are the AIFs going?
Where are the world highest airline industry taxes going?

But the right places!

As pilots we should be demanding better from the airport authorities and the regulator.
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pelmet
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by pelmet »

altiplano wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:33 am Sounds like a poor job by YHZ Airport:

- runway not adequately treated/monitored (broken down vehicle)
- runway conditions (100% ice) not reported to flight crew
- a runway (RW32)100% into wind has inadequate approach facilities
- after the fact support inadequate (2 hours to deplane)

Where are the AIFs going?
Where are the world highest airline industry taxes going?

But the right places!

As pilots we should be demanding better from the airport authorities and the regulator.
Demanding better can result in better but always remember to expect the worst and adjust accordingly, especially in poor weather. Sadly, that's just the way it is.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by altiplano »

We don't just expect the worst, we continue to accept the worst. Difficult to adjust when they don't even report it... we need to be able to trust in something... ie. runway condition reports... where do we draw the line?

I hope Air Canada sues Halifax Airport for negligence in this matter.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by rookiepilot »

altiplano wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:19 pm We don't just expect the worst, we continue to accept the worst. Difficult to adjust when they don't even report it... we need to be able to trust in something... ie. runway condition reports... where do we draw the line?

I hope Air Canada sues Halifax Airport for negligence in this matter.
YHZ sounds like something less than a world class airport from the multiple incidents that have happened there, to this bystander. With Halifax weather being as it is, it's difficult to understand their shortcomings in certain areas.
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rookiepilot
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by rookiepilot »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5043474

Very , very classy of whoever this was, at the same time.

So classy -- Heck, if I was on board, I'd happily split the bill with you if it's your money. Less inclined if it's a full 777!
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fish4life
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by fish4life »

at least YHZ has nice new bathrooms though...........
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parallel60
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by parallel60 »

Agreed, and a new Jugo Juice or Starbucks.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by goingnowherefast »

altiplano wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:19 pm We don't just expect the worst, we continue to accept the worst. Difficult to adjust when they don't even report it... we need to be able to trust in something... ie. runway condition reports... where do we draw the line?
How do we, as pilots, cause this change?
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by Daniel Cooper »

goingnowherefast wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:13 am How do we, as pilots, cause this change?
Don't go.
Just another day at what may be statistically the most dangerous airport in the world to operate jet airliners into.
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pelmet
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by pelmet »

Daniel Cooper wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:24 am
goingnowherefast wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:13 am How do we, as pilots, cause this change?
Don't go.
Just another day at what may be statistically the most dangerous airport in the world to operate jet airliners into.
Nice easy thing to say as an anonymous poster on a thread. Bottom line...you will be going in most cases when the weather is poor. So what to do after complaining on AvCanada about the airport, or any other airport/subject airport. Assume the worst, expect that the end of the runway and the taxiways will be in poor condition, as I have read about so many times over the years, and act accordingly.

One has to deal with the realities of today even while trying to change things for tomorrow.

All this keeping in mind that it is not really known what happened in the specific situation involving this 767.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by altiplano »

Sure it's known.

The YHZ runway treatment truck/plow broke down.
YHZ was operating on a runway with a 90° crosswind because they have inadequate facilities on the in to wind runway.
Nobody thought to report the runway condition down there to the crew... told them some taxiways were closed and to get off on the end.

Those guys were along for the ride when the aircraft weathercocked sideways on the unreported ice.

How do we change it?

Maybe with unified voices from our associations directly to the public. Here's a few things I'd start with:

"Your AIFs are being spent on bullshit."

"You are paying the highest taxes in the world on air travel and not receiving service to represent that."

"Canadian "non-profit" Airport Authorities are too busy shopping for art, and getting wooed for contracts by architects and developers, or trying to lure another hotel or retailer, to look after, let alone improve, the actual safe operation of the airport."

Airport operations are just a hassle for these guys. They may as well be running a shopping mall... In fact they'd rather be running a shopping mall...
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Braun
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by Braun »

Just out of curiousity how would guys rate the snow removal at the other major aiports (YYC, YVR, YYZ and YUL)?
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kevenv
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by kevenv »

altiplano wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:05 pm Nobody thought to report the runway condition down there to the crew... told them some taxiways were closed and to get off on the end.

Those guys were along for the ride when the aircraft weathercocked sideways on the unreported ice.
These statements are based on what? You know for a fact that they were not told about the ice and braking condition from an aircraft that landed before them? You sound like you have some inside info. Care to share?
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rookiepilot
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by rookiepilot »

altiplano wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:05 pm
"Canadian "non-profit" Airport Authorities are too busy shopping for art,

Airport operations are just a hassle for these guys. They may as well be running a shopping mall... In fact they'd rather be running a shopping mall...
Those luxury "fact finding" trips must be fun too. Just like the government.
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teacher
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by teacher »

A small update but nothing really new. From the sounds of it the exit was in worse condition than the runway and the wind helped the poor folks along.

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/ ... rt-290404/
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pelmet
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by pelmet »

teacher wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:56 am A small update but nothing really new. From the sounds of it the exit was in worse condition than the runway and the wind helped the poor folks along.
Always beware of those exits/taxiways. The snowplows are frequently concentrating on the runways. I believe that UAL had similar in ORD recently. A JAL 787 in Narita as well.

Be paranoid and go really slow.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c31631a
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=221405
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pelmet
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Re: Air Canada YHZ

Post by pelmet »

According to a post on another website, the weather was....

CYHZ 042209Z 32024G29KT 1 1/4SM R23/3000VP6000FT/U R14/3000VP6000FT/U -FZDZ BR VV002 M01/M01 A2914 RMK FG8 PRESRR SLP875

Landing runway was 23.

This link has a further link to the ATC recordings....

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/619 ... st10409976

There is post incident conversation on the second recording at 5:40. The controller mentions that they are on the runway so it looks like a runway issue not a taxiway as may have been suggested in the news article.

Pretty strong crosswind and a temp of -1 should be an attention-getter on wet/contaminated runways. Based on the winds, I wonder if a cold front had come through, perhaps with dropping temps.

I do remember a couple of loss of control incidents on landing at one of the companies that I have worked for where the the runway had quickly become slippery combined with big crosswinds. One excursion, one loss of control temporarily.

I see that runway 32 at Halifax doesn't even have a taxiway at the end making it difficult for a 767 even if he could get in that day.
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