Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

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Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by RRJetPilot » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:21 am

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:26 am

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/18-canadia ... sc=UKClXHN

18 Canadians on board.

Tragic, for everyone
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by missed-approach » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:16 am

157 souls lost very tragic.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by complexintentions » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:24 am

Two brand-new 737 Max's lost just after takeoff in the span of five months, very suspicious.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:42 am

Both Lion Air and Ethiopian don't have great safety records let's remember. Ethiopian recently even had a hijacking by it's own pilot. Something you hear crews complaining about being impossible at airport security screening.
I'm not saying it's not the plane. The accidents do seem similar. But we shouldn't just jump to that conclusion based on these two accidents.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Jet Jockey » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:46 am

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:42 am
Both Lion Air and Ethiopian don't have great safety records let's remember.
On another forum, some say that Ethiopian is probably the best airline in Africa others not so sure.

Hopefully both black boxes will be able to give us a clue into what happened.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by BeaverDreamer » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:51 am

200 hour copilot... guess that’s normal in other countries. Very sad.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Jet Jockey » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:33 am

BeaverDreamer wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:51 am
200 hour copilot... guess that’s normal in other countries. Very sad.
They have those in Asia, in Europe and many other parts of the world unfortunately.

And they are coming to Canada soon if not already here in some low cost charter operators through internal training programs...

And just think of all those new pilots at Air Canada with very low time or decent experience... no wonder they have so many incidents.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by ei ei owe » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:48 am

BeaverDreamer wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:51 am
200 hour copilot... guess that’s normal in other countries. Very sad.
They're here......
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Everything comes in threes....

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by FL007 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:05 am

BeaverDreamer wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:51 am
200 hour copilot... guess that’s normal in other countries. Very sad.
*cough*Sunwing
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Inverted2 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:14 am

Wonder if it’s determined to be the same cause as the Lion Air crash they will ground the Max? 2 crashes in 6 months is bad for a new type. Like DC-10 bad.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by brooks » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:29 am

I think Boeing has got a big big problem on their hands. This won't be a DC-10 killer but it's going to be lawsuits galore and major modifications e.g. a third AOA installed like on Airbus.

https://t.co/MtmnQk9sn4
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:05 pm

Jet Jockey wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:46 am
the best airline in Africa others not so sure
No doubt that it is. But that's not saying much. It's kind of like AC winning best airline in North America.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by lostaviator » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:17 pm

While I think 200 hour pilots do pose a potential risk to aviation safety, I don't think it's reasonable to let speculation on this incident drift in that direction. There are statements out there stating the pilots declared a control issue and the plane went down in conditions a 5 hour ppl student could keep a plane straight and level in.

I'm thinking Boeing is going to have a bad few months. Losing 2 airplanes (out of the ~300 produced) with ages under 0.5 years, is not a great statistic.
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Last edited by lostaviator on Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Gino Under » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:37 pm

We'll see how this turns out.
Looking back at another Ethiopian B737 loss in 2010, we could speculate further.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... sh-367118/

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by tsgas » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:39 pm

FL007 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:05 am
BeaverDreamer wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:51 am
200 hour copilot... guess that’s normal in other countries. Very sad.
*cough*Sunwing
It's called :rolleyes: OJT , On The Job Training. These low cost airlines are going to put the flying schools out of business.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by lostaviator » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:51 pm

Gino Under wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:37 pm
We'll see how this turns out.
Looking back at another Ethiopian B737 loss in 2010, we could speculate further.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... sh-367118/

Gino Under
There are a few key differences between the 2010 and 2019 accidents. Today was daylight SKC, whereas 2010 was night/storm/IMC. The pilots in 2010 brought a perfectly good airplane to the ground. Today's accident has reports of a pilot stating they had a control problem and asking to return to the airport.
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Last edited by lostaviator on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by '97 Tercel » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:10 pm

I'm sure Boeing is scrambling... (and sweating)
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by MOAB » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:14 pm

Hopefully more will come out soon.

Just saw "tracking data" that showed it level around ~1500 AGL doing 383 knots....
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by complexintentions » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:14 pm

What a 200-hr FO has to do with a probable flight control problem, I have no idea. That's just cheap bigotry or ignorance of how things are done outside of the narrow little confines of Canuckistan.

And Ethiopian actually is one of the most highly-regarded airlines in Africa, with an very modern fleet of narrow and widebody equipment and extremely experienced expat workforce.

Addis is a challenging airport, but I don't think a factor in the accident.
'97 Tercel wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:10 pm
I'm sure Boeing is scrambling... (and sweating)
I agree. And I'm a Boeing fan. But the optics are terrible. Statistically, nothing like this has happened in the last 40 years. (Two crashes of a brand-new variant in 5 months.)

Maybe Boeing should get back to making really incredible aircraft and stop making watered-down products that only please accountants.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by AlbatrossFeather » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:25 pm

usually when they do modifications after the incidents and accident, planes change in a better way.

looks like the more they modify the aircraft the worse it gets...

Not a Boeing fan I am. but this is getting worse every month.

Just saying...
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by tsgas » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:40 pm

complexintentions wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:14 pm
What a 200-hr FO has to do with a probable flight control problem, I have no idea. That's just cheap bigotry or ignorance of how things are done outside of the narrow little confines of Canuckistan.

And Ethiopian actually is one of the most highly-regarded airlines in Africa, with an very modern fleet of narrow and widebody equipment and extremely experienced expat workforce.

Addis is a challenging airport, but I don't think a factor in the accident.
'97 Tercel wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:10 pm
I'm sure Boeing is scrambling... (and sweating)
I agree. And I'm a Boeing fan. But the optics are terrible. Statistically, nothing like this has happened in the last 40 years. (Two crashes of a brand-new variant in 5 months.)

Maybe Boeing should get back to making really incredible aircraft and stop making watered-down products that only please accountants.
your "bigotry" buddy is being anti-Canadian and not being able to read. It was mentioned that some "Canadian" airlines have started the practice of using ultra low time pilots . Insurance companies base their rates based on "facts" and not on your personal PC/liberal views. :roll:
As far as the cause of the accident , the accident report hasn't been completed, as of yet.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by Daniel Cooper » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:59 pm

It's strange to me that Boeing didn't include a description of the MCAS system in the FCOM. Why hide it? Perhaps they were afraid of pilots complaining about it and ALPA getting involved to force an override switch.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by co-joe » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:26 pm

lostaviator wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:17 pm
While I think 200 hour pilots do pose a potential risk to aviation safety, I don't think it's reasonable to let speculation on this incident drift in that direction. There are statements out there stating the pilots declared a control issue and the plane went down in conditions a 5 hour ppl student could keep a plane straight and level in.

I'm thinking Boeing is going to have a bad few months. Losing 2 airplanes (out of the ~300 produced) with ages under 0.5 years, is not a great statistic.
Not 250 hour, 200 hour. So this was the FO's first flight on their commercial license?

Would it be fair to say that whatever went wrong, they were likely of absolutely no help to the Captain?
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines: 'No survivors' on crashed Boeing 737 max

Post by ogc » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:04 pm

Apparently Cayman Airways has grounded their 737 max

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaymanAirway ... 0223787008
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