King Air at Gillam, MB
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Do college trained pilots ever look out the window or do their homework and familiarize themselves with enroute airports, even old/abandoned ones that are still functional?
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Does anyone here think they intentionally landed on the ice? What were they supposed to do on short final, go around with no engines because the ice might be too thin?corethatthermal wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:02 amAny good pilot flying into the north will have some idea of the ice thickness and its suitability for a precautionary or emergency landing otherwise, I would consider them useless twits trained in college in some big city like Toronto and practically useless for the north !Do tell me; how the hell is a flight crew supposed to know how thick the ice is on the lakes below? Don't remember seeing surrounding lake ice thickness on METAR reports.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Hello centre.....we have a fuel leak......CLASSIC ass cover.
Wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
I can tell you have been flying for years and are clearly a seasoned northern pilot. By all the speculation here, obviously you all should be working for the TSB. Hell, the official report would already be out with all this talent posting on this. You don't know a god damn thing. Clueless. Absolutely idiotic the things in seeing posted and the name calling. So disrespectful. Put yourself in the crews shoes and them seeing this. But you won't. Your all invincible pilots who know everything and nothing bad will ever happen to you. Get a life.corethatthermal wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:02 amAny good pilot flying into the north will have some idea of the ice thickness and its suitability for a precautionary or emergency landing otherwise, I would consider them useless twits trained in college in some big city like Toronto and practically useless for the north !Do tell me; how the hell is a flight crew supposed to know how thick the ice is on the lakes below? Don't remember seeing surrounding lake ice thickness on METAR reports.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Because no King Air has ever had a fuel leak. And no King Air has ever had faulty gauges. And no King Air has ever had mismanaged fuel loading. And certainly no King Air has had a cap left off. Neither has any King Air ever been captained by a pilot that made fuel miscalculations. Also, no King Air has ever been dead sticked to an airport with the crew walking avay.
Now which of these has this crew experienced for the first time since mankind took to the skies?
One thing for sure, all satire asside, seldom have any pilots taken to the skies planning to run out of fuel in Gillam MB. Its just a bad form to plan that into your day. Surely if the captain had briefed the flight with this in the plan, any neophyte SIC would have asked some questions.
Now which of these has this crew experienced for the first time since mankind took to the skies?
One thing for sure, all satire asside, seldom have any pilots taken to the skies planning to run out of fuel in Gillam MB. Its just a bad form to plan that into your day. Surely if the captain had briefed the flight with this in the plan, any neophyte SIC would have asked some questions.
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
If nothing else it is a way to let everyone forget the issue because it can take up to a couple of years for the TSB to release the findings.Hello centre.....we have a fuel leak......CLASSIC ass cover.
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
That depends on the pilot.Do tell me; how the hell is a flight crew supposed to know how thick the ice is on the lakes below?
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
I actually had a small fuel leak in between YZF and YCB in a Kingair couple of years ago. Luckily we caught it and came back to YZF. It can happen and there isn’t a whole lot of suitable landing facilities unlike down south.
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
As i am sure CWE would agree, Any seasoned northern pilot will have an internal "almanac" revised with yearly weather conditions with respect to ice in and ice out in local areas AND will also instinctively know the basic depth and condition of ice by its colour, reflection, shoreline effect and many other variables. You do not need to be a skiplane pilot to get to know the conditions of your alternate airstrip ( the lake in winter) and i am sure any one of your passengers will be comforted to know, if they came up front to ask the capitan if the ice on the lake was safe to land on and you were able to provide a fairly certain yes or no!... WHERE has common sense gone these days? As for flaming the pilot(s) like Kuryakin alluded to, A pilot who MAY have done a stupid or negligent thing will be the same pilot who tries everything in the book of fools to cover it up or lie to get away with it! Where is the honour, where is the integrity?That depends on the pilot.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
god damn thing. Clueless. Absolutely idiotic the things in seeing posted and the name calling. So disrespectful. Put yourself in the crews shoes and them seeing this. But you won't. Your all invincible pilots who know everything and nothing bad will ever happen to you. Get a life.[/quote]
Hmmm, Just WHO is calling the kettle black ?
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Really? You have to be kidding. What is the formula for determining the ice thickness required to support an aircraft? It isn't a formula that is taught in ground school as far as I recall. I have a few thousand hours of ice strip experience and I remember it but I don't recall being told what it was until I started this type of work - which by the way was only after a few thousand hours of other flying. I wouldn't expect anyone without ice strip flying experience to know how to determine how many inches/thousand pounds of load, nor would I expect that any non-ice strip pilot to really know what to look for when selecting a landing site. There are more variables than is the ice thick enough to support the dead weight of the hull. I wouldn't have gone around picking landing sites and randomly trying to land on a lake even with both engines running, let alone under the pressure of a dual engine failure. Ice strip work isn't an entry level job and the skills required aren't learned until you start doing that type of work.corethatthermal wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:02 amAny good pilot flying into the north will have some idea of the ice thickness and its suitability for a precautionary or emergency landing otherwise, I would consider them useless twits trained in college in some big city like Toronto and practically useless for the north !Do tell me; how the hell is a flight crew supposed to know how thick the ice is on the lakes below? Don't remember seeing surrounding lake ice thickness on METAR reports.
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
corethatthermal wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:02 pmAs i am sure CWE would agree, Any seasoned northern pilot will have an internal "almanac" revised with yearly weather conditions with respect to ice in and ice out in local areas AND will also instinctively know the basic depth and condition of ice by its colour, reflection, shoreline effect and many other variables. You do not need to be a skiplane pilot to get to know the conditions of your alternate airstrip ( the lake in winter) and i am sure any one of your passengers will be comforted to know, if they came up front to ask the capitan if the ice on the lake was safe to land on and you were able to provide a fairly certain yes or no!... WHERE has common sense gone these days?That depends on the pilot.
Maybe during the obvious months in the obvious areas.
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
So, on the Air Tindi accident thread, you were completely wrong, you vilified a crew without so much as a thread of evidence, here you are again. You’re a real piece of.... work!Illya Kuryakin wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:43 am Hello centre.....we have a fuel leak......CLASSIC ass cover.
You have no evidence they lied, none, nada, zip! Perhaps you’re projecting your own shortcomings onto other pilots.
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Corethat thermal...
Are you a troll or a teenager in his parents’ basement?
Your comments and conclusions about judging ice suitability from internal Almanacs and what not, are ludicrous.
Maybe you are attempting to deflect the topic away from the obviousfact that a crew landed an aircraft with, not ine, but two dead engines.
Ihave noidea ofyour intent, but be assured we are laughing at you, not withyou.
Are you a troll or a teenager in his parents’ basement?
Your comments and conclusions about judging ice suitability from internal Almanacs and what not, are ludicrous.
Maybe you are attempting to deflect the topic away from the obviousfact that a crew landed an aircraft with, not ine, but two dead engines.
Ihave noidea ofyour intent, but be assured we are laughing at you, not withyou.
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
1) What is the relevance of knowing how thick the ice is? It's a twin turbine airplane. No twin turbine airplane redirects its route to be withing gliding distance of a suitable landing spot. Who cares how thick the ice is. I'd speculate they were trying to make Gillam, not make a nice landing on the frozen lake.corethatthermal wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:02 pmAs i am sure CWE would agree, Any seasoned northern pilot will have an internal "almanac" revised with yearly weather conditions with respect to ice in and ice out in local areas AND will also instinctively know the basic depth and condition of ice by its colour, reflection, shoreline effect and many other variables. You do not need to be a skiplane pilot to get to know the conditions of your alternate airstrip ( the lake in winter) and i am sure any one of your passengers will be comforted to know, if they came up front to ask the capitan if the ice on the lake was safe to land on and you were able to provide a fairly certain yes or no!... WHERE has common sense gone these days? As for flaming the pilot(s) like Kuryakin alluded to, A pilot who MAY have done a stupid or negligent thing will be the same pilot who tries everything in the book of fools to cover it up or lie to get away with it! Where is the honour, where is the integrity?That depends on the pilot.
2) It is a lack of integrity to accuse pilots of flying without fuel and/or covering up said mistake without any proof. Speculate all you want, but if you start accusing pilots based on your personal suspicion or rumours, you are going too far.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Kids these days eh. Probably have a couple hundred hours each, so they know it all. I'm willing to bet that if what happened to this crew happened to half of the people posting on this, the outcome would be quite different. Major koodos to the captain for getting everyone down in 1 piece. He should be considered a hero. Because of him/her, everyone walked away unhurt, and by the looks of it, most of the airplane is salvageable.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
Digits, old chap, I think that you're being trolled...digits_ wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 8:59 am1) What is the relevance of knowing how thick the ice is? It's a twin turbine airplane. No twin turbine airplane redirects its route to be withing gliding distance of a suitable landing spot. Who cares how thick the ice is. I'd speculate they were trying to make Gillam, not make a nice landing on the frozen lake.corethatthermal wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:02 pmAs i am sure CWE would agree, Any seasoned northern pilot will have an internal "almanac" revised with yearly weather conditions with respect to ice in and ice out in local areas AND will also instinctively know the basic depth and condition of ice by its colour, reflection, shoreline effect and many other variables. You do not need to be a skiplane pilot to get to know the conditions of your alternate airstrip ( the lake in winter) and i am sure any one of your passengers will be comforted to know, if they came up front to ask the capitan if the ice on the lake was safe to land on and you were able to provide a fairly certain yes or no!... WHERE has common sense gone these days? As for flaming the pilot(s) like Kuryakin alluded to, A pilot who MAY have done a stupid or negligent thing will be the same pilot who tries everything in the book of fools to cover it up or lie to get away with it! Where is the honour, where is the integrity?That depends on the pilot.
2) It is a lack of integrity to accuse pilots of flying without fuel and/or covering up said mistake without any proof. Speculate all you want, but if you start accusing pilots based on your personal suspicion or rumours, you are going too far.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
What IF they flamed out 2 minutes earlier ? Where would they be? low and slow and into the trees with injuries and deaths OR onto a suitable lake surface with no injuries AND an undamaged A/C with a 2-4 hour delay in ops. There is a shitload of RELEVANCE in knowing your surroundings and your options! A Good pilot often has an ace up the sleeve and its sometimes called a sure and safe option. Your answer above shows ignorance on all counts! Even a seasoned bush pilot may come up short in utilizing all the best tools in the shed to get the job done!1) What is the relevance of knowing how thick the ice is? It's a twin turbine airplane. No twin turbine airplane redirects its route to be withing gliding distance of a suitable landing spot. Who cares how thick the ice is. I'd speculate they were trying to make Gillam, not make a nice landing on the frozen lake.
Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
It's going to go back to why two turbines flamed out at the same time. It won't be a matter of "what if" two minutes earlier. It will be a matter of two hours earlier as to why they flamed out.corethatthermal wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 6:57 pmWhat IF they flamed out 2 minutes earlier ? Where would they be? low and slow and into the trees with injuries and deaths OR onto a suitable lake surface with no injuries AND an undamaged A/C with a 2-4 hour delay in ops. There is a shitload of RELEVANCE in knowing your surroundings and your options! A Good pilot often has an ace up the sleeve and its sometimes called a sure and safe option. Your answer above shows ignorance on all counts! Even a seasoned bush pilot may come up short in utilizing all the best tools in the shed to get the job done!1) What is the relevance of knowing how thick the ice is? It's a twin turbine airplane. No twin turbine airplane redirects its route to be withing gliding distance of a suitable landing spot. Who cares how thick the ice is. I'd speculate they were trying to make Gillam, not make a nice landing on the frozen lake.
Liberalism itself as a religion where its tenets cannot be proven, but provides a sense of moral rectitude at no real cost.
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Re: King Air at Gillam, MB
The thread certainly is bringing all the tools out of the shed.