North Star BT67 put down on lake

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adster1989
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North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by adster1989 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:35 am

couldn't make back to the airport
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Mick G
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Mick G » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:54 am

She'll fly again
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digits_
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by digits_ » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:25 am

Is that the same plane that went down on a frozen lake 2 years ago?
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magic wand
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by magic wand » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:27 am

I cant wait to hear the details of how this came about..
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Daniel Cooper » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:33 am

That one prop doesn't look like it was turning when it hit the water. I'd like to see a pic of the other one.
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Dry Guy
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Dry Guy » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:42 am

I can't see anyone picking up cargo at 1:00 am. I'd imagine this was a fuel hauler. Maybe it was on fire. A hot pump and a leaky hose or something. I'd be wanting to get out of a burning fuel plane asap with tanks full of fuel vapors. Not sure if I'd ditch it or not.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:47 am

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder- ... -1.5184741

This article says "lost power in both engines shortly after takeoff"

I sure hope they investigate. Crashing two DC3s in 1.5 years isn't a good sign.
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pelmet
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by pelmet » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:42 am

I suggest to the TSB that they do a full investigation of both accidents. We get reports for Cessna crashes yet nothing for the previous DC-3 crash.
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Victory
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Victory » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:00 am

If you landed in YPL and forgot to refuel it looks like you'd have just enough fuel to get to YFH but not much more.
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phillyfan
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by phillyfan » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:36 am

And the idiots hit the ground running. This should be an easy 3 pages of mindless sleuthing by sundown.
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digits_
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by digits_ » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 am

How dark does it get up there at 1 am this time a year? Fairly North, but I imagine it must still have been fairly dark in the middle of the night. To ditch in those circumstances, scary!
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Victory
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Victory » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:10 pm

Darker than a black steer's tokus on a moonless prairie night.
phillyfan wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:36 am
And the idiots hit the ground running. This should be an easy 3 pages of mindless sleuthing by sundown.
Please tell us what causes a dual turbine engine failure if not fuel. Volcanic ash? I wonder if they had enough time to get off a mayday call about the "fuel leak".
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telex
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by telex » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:11 pm

Victory wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:10 pm
Darker than a black steer's tokus on a moonless prairie night.
phillyfan wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:36 am
And the idiots hit the ground running. This should be an easy 3 pages of mindless sleuthing by sundown.
Please tell us what causes a dual turbine engine failure if not fuel. Volcanic ash? I wonder if they had enough time to get off a mayday call about the "fuel leak".
lol. too soon...
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GyvAir
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by GyvAir » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:59 pm

That's not how you spell "in".
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Mick G
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Mick G » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:42 pm

Anyone notice there is a conspicuous lack of fuel on the surface..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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pelmet
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by pelmet » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:43 pm

There can be other reasons for a dual engine failure. Just ask Sully.
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corethatthermal
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by corethatthermal » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:54 pm

Umm, yes you can tell by the ripple effect of the waves behind the rudder that the RH prop is in cruise pitch !!! Yes, That fluid that displaces air in the tanks must have been the problem. ( not enough displacement )
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Meatservo
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Meatservo » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:39 pm

pelmet wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:43 pm
There can be other reasons for a dual engine failure. Just ask Sully.
Sully's engines weren't reverse-flow with inertial separators and compressor inlet screens behind a 1900 rpm meat grinder.
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jpilot77
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by jpilot77 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:50 pm

Meatservo wrote:
Sully's engines weren't reverse-flow with inertial separators and compressor inlet screens behind a 1900 rpm meat grinder.


Touché!
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telex
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by telex » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:52 pm

pelmet wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:43 pm
There can be other reasons for a dual engine failure. Just ask Sully.
Quartering tailwind with decreasing pressure?
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pelmet
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by pelmet » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:04 am

Meatservo wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:39 pm
pelmet wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:43 pm
There can be other reasons for a dual engine failure. Just ask Sully.
Sully's engines weren't reverse-flow with inertial separators and compressor inlet screens behind a 1900 rpm meat grinder.
OK. How about contaminated fuel like the Cathay A330 guys?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay_ ... Flight_780
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Meatservo
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Meatservo » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:09 am

pelmet wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:04 am

OK. How about contaminated fuel like the Cathay A330 guys?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay_ ... Flight_780
Could be.
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Dry Guy
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Dry Guy » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:32 am

There's no jet fuel in YFH though. So they would have flown there with the contaminated fuel and then have a double flameout on the way back? Possible but not likely. Does anyone know if they carry diesel in the wing tanks also like the 748 does? It's a stretch but I'm wondering if they offloaded their jet fuel from the wings with the diesel by accident.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Maynard » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:03 am

.
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valleyboy
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by valleyboy » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:48 am

There's no jet fuel in YFH though. So they would have flown there with the contaminated fuel and then have a double flameout on the way back?
They don't and I'll wager the first thing done was check refueling in YPL and no contamination found.

Fuel systems are independent and engines are fed from respective main tanks. Fuel is transfered from aux tanks to main tanks as required in flight on longer flights. You can't xfeed from one main tank to another. Engines are xfed by over riding fuel pressure feeding from main tanks through a xfeed valve by boost pump pressure. Want to feed both engines from left main, right boost pumps off and left boost pumps on. Opposite for other engine.

YFH is short flight and only fuel carried in main tanks and about 21/2 hrs range with main tanks. Like any other PT6 the engines will run at low altitude with no boost pumps operating. I doubt both HP pumps failed at the same time.

If there are no crew errors, the only one would be insufficient fuel and I doubt that. Even if they forgot to fuel main tanks would give them enough fuel for 2 trips.

The only system that could cut off fuel would be an electrical fault to the firewall shut off systems. The other possibility would be both engines feathered, like most other PT6 the auto feather system is poor to useless but they stated engines failed so this is unlikely.

Ditching at night, dead stick is likely right up there with worst days. Well done guys. Hopefully for peace of mind I hope the reason why is found.
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