North Star BT67 put down on lake

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pelmet
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by pelmet »

Meatservo wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:39 pm
pelmet wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:43 pm There can be other reasons for a dual engine failure. Just ask Sully.
Sully's engines weren't reverse-flow with inertial separators and compressor inlet screens behind a 1900 rpm meat grinder.
OK. How about contaminated fuel like the Cathay A330 guys?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay_ ... Flight_780
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Meatservo
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Meatservo »

pelmet wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:04 am
OK. How about contaminated fuel like the Cathay A330 guys?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay_ ... Flight_780
Could be.
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Dry Guy
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Dry Guy »

There's no jet fuel in YFH though. So they would have flown there with the contaminated fuel and then have a double flameout on the way back? Possible but not likely. Does anyone know if they carry diesel in the wing tanks also like the 748 does? It's a stretch but I'm wondering if they offloaded their jet fuel from the wings with the diesel by accident.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Maynard »

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valleyboy
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by valleyboy »

There's no jet fuel in YFH though. So they would have flown there with the contaminated fuel and then have a double flameout on the way back?
They don't and I'll wager the first thing done was check refueling in YPL and no contamination found.

Fuel systems are independent and engines are fed from respective main tanks. Fuel is transfered from aux tanks to main tanks as required in flight on longer flights. You can't xfeed from one main tank to another. Engines are xfed by over riding fuel pressure feeding from main tanks through a xfeed valve by boost pump pressure. Want to feed both engines from left main, right boost pumps off and left boost pumps on. Opposite for other engine.

YFH is short flight and only fuel carried in main tanks and about 21/2 hrs range with main tanks. Like any other PT6 the engines will run at low altitude with no boost pumps operating. I doubt both HP pumps failed at the same time.

If there are no crew errors, the only one would be insufficient fuel and I doubt that. Even if they forgot to fuel main tanks would give them enough fuel for 2 trips.

The only system that could cut off fuel would be an electrical fault to the firewall shut off systems. The other possibility would be both engines feathered, like most other PT6 the auto feather system is poor to useless but they stated engines failed so this is unlikely.

Ditching at night, dead stick is likely right up there with worst days. Well done guys. Hopefully for peace of mind I hope the reason why is found.
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MUSKEG
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by MUSKEG »

Doesn’t say this was their first flight.
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Spandau
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Spandau »

Might have just shut down the wrong one. Wouldn't be the first time it's been done.
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ipilot54
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by ipilot54 »

I was up until about midnight in that general area. Don't have any idea what happened however, if I needed to ditch it would have been a perfect night to do so. The lakes looked like mirrors with no wind and the moon, although not full, was quite bright. In fact, my FO commented "what a beautiful night".

And while you can see the "glow" on the horizon at this time of the year at that time, it is of no help. The moon and clear skies are as it appeared from our our perspective are.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by fish4life »

ipilot54 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:18 pm I was up until about midnight in that general area. Don't have any idea what happened however, if I needed to ditch it would have been a perfect night to do so. The lakes looked like mirrors with no wind and the moon, although not full, was quite bright. In fact, my FO commented "what a beautiful night".

And while you can see the "glow" on the horizon at this time of the year at that time, it is of no help. The moon and clear skies are as it appeared from our our perspective are.
If the lakes are mirrored it is actually way harder and worse to do especially if dead sticking it in there, they must have been ex float pilots because most other pilots won’t judge glassy water correctly
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by corethatthermal »

because most other pilots won’t judge glassy water correctly
You dont "judge" a glassy water landing, you recognize it is glassy and then apply the technique which is basically an instrument approach to touchdown from a minimum safe height above water.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by goingnowherefast »

So why did they end up there?

I'm surprised Cat and Ilya aren't all over this with their typical rhetoric. Maybe because it's a DC3 and DC3 pilots are perfect?
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Dry Guy »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:50 am So why did they end up there?

I'm surprised Cat and Ilya aren't all over this with their typical rhetoric. Maybe because it's a DC3 and DC3 pilots are perfect?

Illya is friends with people at the company so won't hold them to the same standard as others.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by digits_ »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:50 am So why did they end up there?

I'm surprised Cat and Ilya aren't all over this with their typical rhetoric. Maybe because it's a DC3 and DC3 pilots are perfect?
Are you saying DC3 pilots aren't perfect?





:wink:
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by cncpc »

Dry Guy wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:42 am I can't see anyone picking up cargo at 1:00 am. I'd imagine this was a fuel hauler. Maybe it was on fire. A hot pump and a leaky hose or something. I'd be wanting to get out of a burning fuel plane asap with tanks full of fuel vapors. Not sure if I'd ditch it or not.
You wouldn't ditch a burning airplane?
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by cncpc »

telex wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:52 pm
pelmet wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:43 pm There can be other reasons for a dual engine failure. Just ask Sully.
Quartering tailwind with decreasing pressure?
Whatever happened to that guy?
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Warden »

Dry Guy wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:23 am
goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:50 am So why did they end up there?

I'm surprised Cat and Ilya aren't all over this with their typical rhetoric. Maybe because it's a DC3 and DC3 pilots are perfect?

Illya is friends with people at the company so won't hold them to the same standard as others.
Anyone know who the crew was?
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by C.W.E. »

I'm surprised Cat and Ilya aren't all over this with their typical rhetoric. Maybe because it's a DC3 and DC3 pilots are perfect?
Maybe it's because we have no idea why it ended up there.
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Just another canuck
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Just another canuck »

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Last edited by Just another canuck on Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Warden »

Just another canuck wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 pm Keep in mind could be a rumour only but I heard the PM pulled the condition levers instead of the props. Which when you think about it, is the most reasonable scenario I can think of. Better chance of hitting lotto max on a weekly basis than having true dual engine failures. Fuel contamination seems unlikely to me cause they already flew a leg. That thing will fly just fine on one so... And I'd really like to know what happened to the one on the ice too.
If that's the case, that is a pretty significant deviation. And even if it was the PM, the PF still takes blame since everything is supposed to be confirmed. Unless, the PM action-ed something without confirmation which is even worse.

Every prop plane I've flown it has been drilled into me to **take your time** to a point, when you run a drill. The aircraft was reported empty, correct? Even with one engine un feathered the Basler is a powerful bird. Why rush? It will fly.

The same thing happened to the ATR in China. Crews getting too worked up and cracking under the pressure of an emergency and not following SOP.

Honestly, I would rather hear that it was mechanical because if it was another crew error it really doesn't bode well for the reputation of "Canadian Pilots" being some of the best in the world. Many issues in the past few years. Makes you wonder if our training in Canada is really as good as we think it is.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Just another canuck »

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Last edited by Just another canuck on Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
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