North Star BT67 put down on lake

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7ECA
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by 7ECA »

Assuming the intent was to reduce prop RPM after takeoff, why would you be pulling the prop levers all the way back into feather?

Seems like just another odd theory.
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

corethatthermal wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:01 pm Could they have made the throttle levers any taller?
These things are flown by biker wannabes. The tall throttles make the drivers think of ape hangars.
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Just another canuck
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Just another canuck »

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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by bring me the horizon »

I don't buy it. Max takeoff power is 100% torque and governs at 1700 rpm. Passed 400' and you set climb power, which is 95% torque and 1700 rpm. So essentially, you don't touch the props until you level out for cruise which could be anywhere between 1000-1500 rpm making sure you don't over torque past 95%.
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Meatservo
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Meatservo »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:23 pm
corethatthermal wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:01 pm Could they have made the throttle levers any taller?
These things are flown by biker wannabes. The tall throttles make the drivers think of ape hangars.
Illya
*HANGERS

Why are people so consistently unable to understand the difference between a hangar and a hanger?
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shimmydampner
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by shimmydampner »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:25 pm WOW
The hot air. Some day I'll just land one in a swamp, then tune here to learn how I did.
Illya
You didn't mind all the speculation on the last dual flameout incident. Why've you got your knickers in a twist over this one?
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by PilotDAR »

Basler has made the engine control knobs correctly, so they conform to the required shapes. In the dark, you can feel the shape of the knob to assure you're holding the correct one before moving it. On the Basler, the power levers are very tall (with round, black knobs) because there is a spring loaded mechanism within each power lever arm for the reverse interlock sliding elements.

The condition levers have gates at the top of their motion, so both would have to be moved to the left, and then toward closed to shut down the engine(s), and as said, the prop levers have a gate at feather. So, a pilot would not be either shutting down engines, nor feathering propellers, without purposefully moving the levers past gates. The controls conform to all the norms of PT6 engine powered airplanes.

Letting alone pulling engine control suddenly all the way back without an accompanying emergency, there is no reason to mistake the engine controls in a Basler.

If there are any other Basler cockpit control questions, I'm in a hangar with two Baslers for the week....
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goingnowherefast
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by goingnowherefast »

The only way I'd believe the condition lever story is if the PM was horribly fatigued, 17 hour day at 2am fatigued. Super low experience, to the point they haven't developed muscle memory yet on type. Then have the condition lever gates worn down so bad they're ineffective.

There's just too many layers of swiss cheese to pull the condition levers back by accident. (As opposed to the power levers, since props remain at max for climb)
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Just another canuck
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Just another canuck »

..
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Last edited by Just another canuck on Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Victory »

bring me the horizon wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:50 pm I don't buy it. Max takeoff power is 100% torque and governs at 1700 rpm. Passed 400' and you set climb power, which is 95% torque and 1700 rpm. So essentially, you don't touch the props until you level out for cruise which could be anywhere between 1000-1500 rpm making sure you don't over torque past 95%.
Not every company runs the same prop settings.

Also there is a chance they had already reached cruise altitude when they shut down the engines. Perhaps that altitude was low if they didn't want to spend 10 minutes climbing into an increasing headwind for a 30 minute flight.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Maynard »

Yes the condition levers have a gate....but with the amount of cycles I amigine it has, the hard corner would over time not be pointy. Also I assume the captain shuts down the airplane. This would be a pull force to the left every time, which tiny amounts over and over would make the lever arms not so tight to the right side of its travel. I can totally see how possible this could be and without much effort. Throw in 1am and darkness...
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by goingnowherefast »

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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

shimmydampner wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:13 am
Illya Kuryakin wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:25 pm WOW
The hot air. Some day I'll just land one in a swamp, then tune here to learn how I did.
Illya
You didn't mind all the speculation on the last dual flameout incident. Why've you got your knickers in a twist over this one?
Don't fly a BT67 Shim. How do you always mention my knickers? You’re a strange little man.
Illya
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

No idea who the crew was (don’t really care) or their background, but, the throttles on a “real” DC3 are in the middle. Props on the left.....just throwing that out there.
Illya
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shimmydampner
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by shimmydampner »

Illya Kuryakin wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 pm Don't fly a BT67 Shim. How do you always mention my knickers? You’re a strange little man.
Illya
It's just that I worry about you and how wound up you get. Given your advanced age it can be hazardous to your health. But now I see you only get spun up when it concerns types that you fly.
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KingAirlol
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by KingAirlol »

Just another canuck wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 pm Keep in mind could be a rumour only but I heard the PM pulled the condition levers instead of the props. Which when you think about it, is the most reasonable scenario I can think of. Better chance of hitting lotto max on a weekly basis than having true dual engine failures. Fuel contamination seems unlikely to me cause they already flew a leg. That thing will fly just fine on one so... And I'd really like to know what happened to the one on the ice too.
It's the same plane that was on the ice!

They are floating this one off the lake Tomorrow and doing engine swaps at the airport

😳 She'll be back in the air soon
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by PilotDAR »

the throttles on a “real” DC3 are in the middle. Props on the left
Which is very nice for "real" DC-3's, and would not be permitted for the Basler. With the Basler updates being approved under FAR Part 25, instead of CAR 4, it is required that the engine control location conform to FAR Part 25 standards - power levers to the left. The Basler power lever arrangement would be the same as every other Part 25, multi engined Part 23, and most CAR 3 multi engined planes, to assure commonality. I'm confident that the pilots of a Turbine powered Basler DC-3 would recall that they are not flying a piston powered DC-3 - There are differences between the two versions of the aircraft beyond power lever position.
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by digits_ »

KingAirlol wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:12 pm
Just another canuck wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 pm Keep in mind could be a rumour only but I heard the PM pulled the condition levers instead of the props. Which when you think about it, is the most reasonable scenario I can think of. Better chance of hitting lotto max on a weekly basis than having true dual engine failures. Fuel contamination seems unlikely to me cause they already flew a leg. That thing will fly just fine on one so... And I'd really like to know what happened to the one on the ice too.
It's the same plane that was on the ice!

They are floating this one off the lake Tomorrow and doing engine swaps at the airport

😳 She'll be back in the air soon
This plane is going to become the most expensive DC3 ever!
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Illya Kuryakin
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by Illya Kuryakin »

PilotDAR wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:24 pm
the throttles on a “real” DC3 are in the middle. Props on the left
Which is very nice for "real" DC-3's, and would not be permitted for the Basler. With the Basler updates being approved under FAR Part 25, instead of CAR 4, it is required that the engine control location conform to FAR Part 25 standards - power levers to the left. The Basler power lever arrangement would be the same as every other Part 25, multi engined Part 23, and most CAR 3 multi engined planes, to assure commonality. I'm confident that the pilots of a Turbine powered Basler DC-3 would recall that they are not flying a piston powered DC-3 - There are differences between the two versions of the aircraft beyond power lever position.
I just tossed that out there for interest. Beech 18, Beech Travel Airs, and early Barons also had throttles centre. Probably many more. Beavers? Otters? Methinks so.
Illya
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Re: North Star BT67 put down on lake

Post by valleyboy »

And like most knobs they had their approved shape, colour and length and also contoured so one's hand will not slip off :smt040
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