Kelowna icon a5

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Alav
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Kelowna icon a5

Post by Alav » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:23 am

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5188553

At least the landing gear being extended, whilst upside down in the water reduces the list of reasons.

Registration says invalid on faa search however?
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Last edited by Alav on Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Heliian
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Re: Kelowna

Post by Heliian » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:43 am

Alav wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:23 am
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5188553

At least the landing gear being extended, whilst upside down in the water reduces the list of reasons.

Registration says invalid on faa search however?
Shows Valid now, it's actually registered to a third party registration provider so non u.s. citizens can own n reg aircraft.

Gear up on water, down for land. Such a simple miss.
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Alav
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Re: Kelowna

Post by Alav » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:27 am

So it was an icon a5...

Another one bites the dust...
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Kelowna

Post by goingnowherefast » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:52 am

Land a privately operated seaplane in the wrong configuration and the TSB investigates. Land a DC3 in (or on) a lake and not even a boo :roll:
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Alav
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Re: Kelowna

Post by Alav » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:22 am

goingnowherefast wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:52 am
Land a privately operated seaplane in the wrong configuration and the TSB investigates. Land a DC3 in (or on) a lake and not even a boo :roll:
Given icons interesting marketing choices, the exemption to allow an additional 250lbs of weight and still qualify as LSA. And the number of hull losses to date - including one claiming the chief test pilot...
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Re: Kelowna

Post by PilotDAR » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:38 am

Land a privately operated seaplane in the wrong configuration and the TSB investigates. Land a DC3 in (or on) a lake and not even a boo :roll:
From my experience, the TSB will have little interest in this. I imagine that they are considering the DC-3 event with a lot more interest...

Okay, yeah, Alav does make a good point.... That said, a friend and his student were fatal, and it was the same TSB investigator who interviewed my after my right seat event. Not only was the accident I was involved it not the subject of a TSB report, even the two fatal accident was not reported. The TSB rationale was that there was nothing to be learned from either event. Sadly, I have to agree with that conclusion. 'Same for this one...

... Though Icons can do anything can't they?
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Re: Kelowna

Post by Daniel Cooper » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 am

goingnowherefast wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:52 am
Land a privately operated seaplane in the wrong configuration and the TSB investigates. Land a DC3 in (or on) a lake and not even a boo :roll:
One's in Kelowna the other is in Fort Hope.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by jakeandelwood » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:52 am

Icon's website is like they are selling cars. First thing they mention is the plane has a "control stick just like a fighter jet" :roll:
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C.W.E.
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by C.W.E. » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:57 am

Icon's website is like they are selling cars. First thing they mention is the plane has a "control stick just like a fighter jet" :roll:
Is there something wrong with a control stick?
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digits_
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by digits_ » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:04 am

jakeandelwood wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:52 am
Icon's website is like they are selling cars. First thing they mention is the plane has a "control stick just like a fighter jet" :roll:
The funny thing is you could buy an actual (old though) fighter jet for less than an icon
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by GyvAir » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:53 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:57 am
Icon's website is like they are selling cars. First thing they mention is the plane has a "control stick just like a fighter jet" :roll:
Is there something wrong with a control stick?
I believe the point of his post wasn’t to question the choice of a stick over a yoke setup but rather to point out that they are selling them as being a sexy and high performance jet fighter like aircraft in which you will look cool for your Audi A10 driving, jetski riding friends.

They could have said “Like a Piper Cub” or “Like and Air Tractor”, but that would have lost them half their target market.
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Alav
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by Alav » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:38 pm

Check the halladay crash video.

Same year icon lost its chief test pilot and another employee flying at low level over water by heading up the wrong valley into rising terrain...

Then see the marketing videos.

See a problem?
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by jakeandelwood » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:14 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:57 am
Icon's website is like they are selling cars. First thing they mention is the plane has a "control stick just like a fighter jet" :roll:
Is there something wrong with a control stick?
Nothing at all, just weird they compare it to fighter jet, look you can be just like maverick in a fighter jet.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by jakeandelwood » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:21 pm

GyvAir wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:53 pm
C.W.E. wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:57 am
Icon's website is like they are selling cars. First thing they mention is the plane has a "control stick just like a fighter jet" :roll:
Is there something wrong with a control stick?
I believe the point of his post wasn’t to question the choice of a stick over a yoke setup but rather to point out that they are selling them as being a sexy and high performance jet fighter like aircraft in which you will look cool for your Audi A10 driving, jetski riding friends.

They could have said “Like a Piper Cub” or “Like and Air Tractor”, but that would have lost them half their target market.
You said exactly what I was thinking
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by AirFrame » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:32 am

(Grabs bowl of popcorn)

(opens AvCanada)

"Oh, drat, not reruns again!"
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J31
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by J31 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:55 am

Why are there pilots that still do not retract the wheel gear on an amphibious airplane after takeoff?!

You are more likely to survive an off airport forced approach with the wheels UP in a bog. Landing or forced approach on the water with the gear up will be an non event. Landing on the water with the gear down is a potentially fatal mistake.

Treat an amphibian like any other retractable gear aircraft, GEAR UP after takoff!
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C.W.E.
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by C.W.E. » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:06 am

Why are there pilots that still do not retract the wheel gear on an amphibious airplane after takeoff?!
Because an amphibian operates off of both land and water and rote habits of retracting the gear is just plain dumb if you have just taken off from the water.

The safest way for confirming gear position is to identify the surface you are about to land on and confirm the gear is in the proper position for the surface you are about to land on.

My pre-landing check is.

" Where am I landing and where is my gear? "

For example, " I am landing on the water....confirm gear up. "

That has worked for me since 1954 when I started flying amphibians.
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J31
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by J31 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:15 am

I agree about departures from the water Chuck, but I do not think you would get off the water with the gear down! :smt040 I am talking about flying cross county in an amphib with the wheel gear down. Now that is "Dumb"!
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J31
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by J31 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:20 am

C.W.E. wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:06 am
Why are there pilots that still do not retract the wheel gear on an amphibious airplane after takeoff?!
Because an amphibian operates off of both land and water and rote habits of retracting the gear is just plain dumb if you have just taken off from the water.

The safest way for confirming gear position is to identify the surface you are about to land on and confirm the gear is in the proper position for the surface you are about to land on.

My pre-landing check is.

" Where am I landing and where is my gear? "

For example, " I am landing on the water....confirm gear up. "

That has worked for me since 1954 when I started flying amphibians.
I completely agree with your pre-landing check. Professional and done religiously will prevent a potentially fatal mistake.
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by C.W.E. » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:21 am

I am talking about flying cross county in an amphib with the wheel gear down. Now that is "Dumb"!
Yes it sure is....but it also can be the Darwin Principal in action.
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by C.W.E. » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:23 am

I completely agree with your pre-landing check. Professional and done religiously will prevent a potentially fatal mistake.
It did for me twice in my career, once in a heavy water bomber and once in a Cessna 206 amphibian.
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by pelmet » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:32 am

digits_ wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:04 am
jakeandelwood wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:52 am
Icon's website is like they are selling cars. First thing they mention is the plane has a "control stick just like a fighter jet" :roll:
The funny thing is you could buy an actual (old though) fighter jet for less than an icon
Icon could be getting into some financial difficulties as they are slashing their workforce. According to the linked article, their prices have risen significantly. I visited their factory about a year ago. It is a huge warehouse that perhaps they were able to buy quite cheaply and convert into a factory. Still, it must have cost quite a bit. They mentioned about how they comply with California clean air standards. Something to be proud of but likely quite expensive. Mass production is how you cut costs, but the costs can be endless for something like this.

There was some kind of a share ownership program which sounded interesting. I hope it works out for them.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... dium=email

"Icon Aircraft is slashing its workforce by 40 percent as price increases for its A5 amphibious light sport aircraft have reduced demand"

"Customers had placed deposits for about 1,800 aircraft two years ago, but multiple price increases drove up retail prices to $389,000, and the company has struggled to convert deposits to sales. Icon has built and delivered about 100 finished two-seat A5 sport airplanes to date.

“Icon is currently structured for higher volume production,” said Thomas Wieners, Icon president. “We now have a very good understanding of costs. And while the Icon A5 is a truly exceptional plane, the necessary higher price lowers demand considerably and requires us to adjust the organization size as a result.”
Icon is cutting its workforce to 400 employees from 650, the company said. Icon is based in Vacaville, California, and has an assembly plant there. It also has a composite production facility in Tijuana, Mexico.
The A5 has received rave reviews from pilots who have flown the carbon-fiber, spin-resistant aircraft—but the company has been plagued by high-profile accidents, too. Designer Jon Karkow and a new Icon employee were killed in an A5 crash in May, 2017, and baseball great Roy Halladay lost his life in one six months later. Several more have been destroyed in nonfatal accidents. None of the mishaps have been blamed on the aircraft’s design or construction.
Wieners said the company had been delivering about five airplanes per month recently but will cut back with the workforce reduction. He declined to give any future production targets.
“We’re confident in Icon’s future and continued growth,” he said. “This is a necessary step. As the company grows, we’ll scale production and staffing accordingly.”"
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by PilotDAR » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:47 am

None of the mishaps have been blamed on the aircraft’s design or construction.
I would believe to be true. And, the page previously on the ICON website about low altitude operations seems to have been removed also. I'm sure that the plane is pretty good, and worthy of the favourable comments made about it. It's how some newer pilots were flying it which was concerning. I believe that if flown with appropriate caution, by a suitably trained and careful pilot, it could be as safe as any airplane operating in the same environment. If people see value in an airplane of that cost for the somewhat limited capability, power to them!
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Re: Kelowna icon a5

Post by rigpiggy » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:30 pm

C.W.E. wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:06 am

That has worked for me since 1954 when I started flying amphibians.
Hey cat I didn't know Kermit had a sister :smt040 :smt040
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