The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Topics related to accidents, incidents & over due aircraft should be placed in this forum.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

Post Reply
pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4037
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Post by pelmet » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:28 am

EMAS is showing up at more and more airports in the US. Would be nice if Canada spent some tax dollars on this instead of some of their other 'priorities'.

Here is a video of a fatal accident where EMAS would definitly have been a lifesaver. I suspect the departure end of this runway will be getting in the near future.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXGM2snQD9w
---------- ADS -----------
  

Heliian
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Re: The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Post by Heliian » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:46 am

No, it wouldn't have. https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsa ... _172276323

Maybe if they were qualified. You need to slow down pelmet.
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Post by digits_ » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:12 am

Heliian wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:46 am
No, it wouldn't have. https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsa ... _172276323

Maybe if they were qualified. You need to slow down pelmet.
Their paperwork doesn't affect the physics of the accident. If more external deceleration was available (EMAS), chances are they wouldn't have slid off the runway, so it most likely would have helped.

Then again, proper training would probably have helped as well. So maybe not the best accident to advocate installing EMAS everywhere. Especially because you are using a US airport without EMAS installed as an argument to install EMAS in Canada because the US is doing better in that regards :rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------
  

goldeneagle
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:28 pm

Re: The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Post by goldeneagle » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:34 am

digits_ wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:12 am

Then again, proper training would probably have helped as well. So maybe not the best accident to advocate installing EMAS everywhere. Especially because you are using a US airport without EMAS installed as an argument to install EMAS in Canada because the US is doing better in that regards :rolleyes:
You guys really need to look carefully at the details before you start rolling eyes and making comments. The runway in question DOES have EMAS installed, but it's on the other end where there was room for it. It's not on the incident end because there is no room for it.

But more interesting details, check out this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wJ0d6jAPWY

from the first comment
===============
I have over 4000 flight hours in that type. The owner/ operator of that aircraft, ( the unrated copilot that was killed) apparently convinced the other deceased pilot, who was only rated for second in command duties, to fly the plane as captain, after the regular captain refused to fly the plane due to an inoperative anti-skid system. The brake system on the Falcon 50 has three operating modes and 1 emergency braking mode: #1 hydraulic system with Anti-skid ( the normal braking system). #2 hydraulic system without anti-skid, but regulated to a lesser pressure to avoid blowing tires, #1 hydraulic system without anti skid. ( used primarily to clear brakes of ice after taking off from contaminated runways, and lastly, the #2 brake system actuated the park brake system and has an accumulator, in case of hydraulic failure.
Without anti skid operating, if you elect to land with normal brake system selected, you will have NO BRAKES! Which might explain why the untrained copilot continued at high speed off the end of the runway. It’s terrible that two people died, but these two knowingly committed an illegal act and probably defrauded the passengers.
===============
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Post by digits_ » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:48 am

goldeneagle wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:34 am
he runway in question DOES have EMAS installed, but it's on the other end where there was room for it. It's not on the incident end because there is no room for it.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You're funny.


My car has passenger airbags. I mean, it's installed on the driver's side, because there is no room on the passenger side, but it does have passenger airbags.
---------- ADS -----------
  

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4037
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Post by pelmet » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:18 am

Heliian wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:46 am
No, it wouldn't have.
Maybe if they were qualified. You need to slow down pelmet.
Yes it would have saved their lives. The overrun would have been into the EMAS instead of over the dropoff. Have you caught up with that or am I going to fast. :wink:
---------- ADS -----------
  

StandingBy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: The kind of accident EMAS is designed to prevent

Post by StandingBy » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:00 am

This happened a while back, but if I remember correctly, the anti-skid was inop on this aircraft. Given the lack of qualifications with this crew, if they landed long and fast they would've stood on the brakes and they would've locked up on them, hence the smoke in the video. From my limited conversations with american pilots in the corporate world, this sort of chisel charter activity with unqualified pilots is not uncommon. Apparently they were meant to pick up PAYING passengers in Greenville!

The 50 can land and stop on 5300' without the use of brakes. The comment in the second video about the level of skill required to land in that distance is a bit exaggerated.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft”